Ukraine / Russia - Actions and Reactions
- Thread starter GURPS
- Start date
One of those questions was about what he had to say to Americans who have questions about sending what is now well over $100 billion to that country, and Zelenskyy’s answer isn’t flying with a lot of people:
One of those people who took exception to that explanation is Sen. Mike Lee, who had this to say:
A problem I have had since the U.S. started sending all that money and weapons has been with the people, including Democrats and many Republicans, who slam anybody who calls on tight oversight for all that aid. Now Zelenskyy seems to be among them with his seeming attempt to frighten Americans into not asking questions or being opposed to all that aid being sent to Ukraine, especially because it’s not as if all domestic problems have been solved.
One of those people who took exception to that explanation is Sen. Mike Lee, who had this to say:
A problem I have had since the U.S. started sending all that money and weapons has been with the people, including Democrats and many Republicans, who slam anybody who calls on tight oversight for all that aid. Now Zelenskyy seems to be among them with his seeming attempt to frighten Americans into not asking questions or being opposed to all that aid being sent to Ukraine, especially because it’s not as if all domestic problems have been solved.
India is trying to get G20 countries to follow Putin's instruction not to refer to Russia's war in Ukraine as a 'war,' reports say
India's reluctance to use the word "war" is in keeping with the Kremlin's own preference. It also discourages the term in Russia, preferring that it be called a "special military operation," a phrase used by Vladimir Putin when announcing the invasion.
(He has on occasion ignored his own rule and used the word "war," but the euphemism continues to be widespread in Russian official media.)
Russia is a member of the G20 and is sending a delegation to the meetings. It was to send deputies to its finance minister and central-bank chief instead of the officials themselves, Reuters said.
China has also refused to call the war a "war," instead terming it a "crisis," per The Wall Street Journal.
Although India has not explicitly sided with Russia, it has continued to economically support the country by refusing to impose sanctions and scooping up Russian oil and natural gas imports.
On Friday — just two days before the WSJ dropped its exclusive article packed with quotes from anonymous intelligence officials who know about how all the super-secret, un-named agencies feel on the lab-leak issue — the Washington Post ran an indignant story headlined “China Considers Sending Russia Artillery Shells, U.S. Officials Say.”Apparently, the striped-pants, champagne-cocktail crowd at the State Department thinks it would be totally outrageous and unethical if some big country were to start meddling in the Proxy War by giving one of the participants more weapons. I mean, who DOES that? People should stay out of the Proxy War and let the Ukrainians and Russians duke it out.
Keeping in mind the Department of Energy’s five-page lab-leak brief, and the fact that the Biden Administration used to think that accusing the Wuhan Institute of Virology of negligence was “racist,” consider how alarmed Team Biden was by Friday’s news China might toss some of its spare ordnance in Russia’s direction:
Well. And just when Ukraine was on the brink of turning Russia into a third-world country. I’m sure you’ve seen, as I have, the countless articles tallying up Russian losses and salivating at the prospect the superpower would soon “run out of munitions” and start fighting with sharpened ski poles or something. Apparently all these geniuses never predicted that other non-NATO countries might eventually get pulled into the ESCALATING conflict.
A week ago, the Washington Post ran an alarmed headline warning China to stay out of it, headlined, “Blinken warns China against giving ‘lethal support’ to Russia, as leaders meet in Munich.” Now it seems China has ignored Mr. Blinken’s bluster, and is talking about artillery shells, a core item extremely useful for destroying troops, tanks, and infrastructure targets from long distances.
THIS is what “escalation” looks like. Which is a word we’ve been shouting into the Proxy War hurricane since day number one.
And if Proxy War supporters start saying, “well, we’ll just have to beat China too!”, then I intend to mock them so hard they’ll never sit down again without an inflatable cushion ring. Just try it.
But that’s just what the geniuses on Team Biden appear to be getting ready to say:
Let’s just go to war with EVERYBODY!
☕️ PERSISTENCE ☙ Monday, February 27, 2023 ☙ C&C NEWS 🦠
Can you believe the racists down at the Dept of Energy blame Chinese negligence for the pandemic? A new study undermines all the key arguments for jab safety; and where in the world is John Fetterman?
www.coffeeandcovid.com
Hmm now the lab leak conversation comes up, is this an effort to put pressure on China to end supplying Russia with shells
In fairness to our tiny group of Ukraine supporters, the viral clip I posted above, and the quote, omit some additional context that Zelensky said IF America stops sending pallets of cash and Ukraine loses, THEN America will be sending its sons and daughters to fight in the NATO countries, because in Zelensky’s feverish imagination, after taking Russia defeats Ukraine (which we’ve been assured is impossible), Russia will somehow magically multiply and metastasize, taking its World War II-era tanks and invading the rest of Europe in a wild Russian blitzkrieg or something.
It’s nonsense, of course.
But this Zelensky clip, taken in or out of context, just might have been his jumping-the-shark moment. I’ve NEVER seen so much anti-Ukraine commentary on social media as I have this morning. The reason is, Vladimir should have stuck to playing the piano with his pocket lizard, and left our kids out of it.
☕️ JUMPING THE SHARK ☙ Wednesday, March 1, 2023 ☙ C&C NEWS 🦠
A packed and delicious roundup with tons of good news, including the craziest, most wonderful new bill in Florida. And Zelensky probably just jumped the shark. Plus LOTS more.
www.coffeeandcovid.com
Questioning Biden’s Ukraine Policy Doesn’t Make You An ‘Isolationist’
Yet Ukraine — which, before the war, regularly slotted in somewhere beneath Burma, Mexico, and Hungary on those silly “democracy matrixes” left-wingers used to love — isn’t any kind of liberal democracy. Maybe one day it will be. Today Ukraine still shutters churches and restricts the free press. Maybe you believe those are justifiable actions during wartime, but under no definition are they liberal. Ukraine has never been a functioning “democracy.” Its people defend its borders and sovereignty in the face of a powerful expansionist aggressor. That’s good enough.
But a person is capable of rooting for Vladimir Putin to be embarrassed, beaten, and weakened, without accepting the historical revisionism and a highly idealized version of Ukraine. A person is fully capable of rooting for Putin to be embarrassed, beaten, and weakened, and also asking questions about where this is all headed.
Last week on “Fox and Friends,” probable presidential candidate Ron DeSantis answered a few queries about the war. Perhaps one day the governor will morph into the next Charles Lindbergh, but none of his answers were remotely “isolationist” — as Axios’ Josh Kraushaar, and many others, claimed. Unless, that is, anything short of automatic, lockstepping support for every foreign entanglement is considered “isolationist.”
Merrick Garland Says Result Of Russia-Ukraine War Will Have ‘Direct’ Impact On American Democracy
“Just over twelve months ago, invading Russian forces began committing atrocities at the largest scale in any armed conflict since the Second World War,” Garland, who did not announce his plan to attend the conference beforehand, said. “We are here today in Ukraine to speak clearly, and with one voice: the perpetrators of those crimes will not get away with them.”
Garland said the results of Ukraine’s war with Russia would have a “direct” influence on democracy in the U.S. “The United States recognizes that what happens here in Ukraine will have a direct impact on the strength of our own democracy,” he claimed.
According to the Justice Department, Garland also held several meetings with local officials while at the conference. Garland’s trip to Ukraine follows previous visits from Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, President Joe Biden, and a number of senators.
“Just over twelve months ago, invading Russian forces began committing atrocities at the largest scale in any armed conflict since the Second World War,” Garland, who did not announce his plan to attend the conference beforehand, said. “We are here today in Ukraine to speak clearly, and with one voice: the perpetrators of those crimes will not get away with them.”
Garland said the results of Ukraine’s war with Russia would have a “direct” influence on democracy in the U.S. “The United States recognizes that what happens here in Ukraine will have a direct impact on the strength of our own democracy,” he claimed.
According to the Justice Department, Garland also held several meetings with local officials while at the conference. Garland’s trip to Ukraine follows previous visits from Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, President Joe Biden, and a number of senators.
Russian Forces Close In On Bakhmut
Russia, Ukraine War, Ukraine, Yevgeny Prigozhin, Wagner Group, Bakhmut, Donetsk, DonbasAllSides Summary
After months of intense fighting, Russian forces are close to fully capturing the eastern Ukrainian city of Bakhmut.The Details: Russian forces, including many mercenaries from the Wagner Group, are nearing full encirclement of the Ukrainian mining town of Bakhmut, after seven months of intense fighting. Ukrainian officials have been instructing the few remaining civilians to leave via the one evacuation route still controlled by Ukrainian forces.
For Context: Russia's first notable battlefield gain since the capture of Soledar, Bakhmut is strategically important for capturing the Donbas industrial region, one of Moscow's key objectives. It's also a significant win for Wagner CEO Yevgeniy Prigozhin, who has been critical of the Russian state’s military strategy and recently accused top Kremlin brass Valery Gerasimov and Sergei Shoigu of “treason”.
Key Quotes: The US Institute for the Study of War has concluded, “Ukrainian forces appear to be setting conditions for a controlled fighting withdrawal from parts of Bakhmut.” Volodymyr Nazarenko, a deputy commander in the National Guard of Ukraine said, “The task of our forces in Bakhmut is to inflict as many losses on the enemy as possible… There are many more Russians here than we have ammunition to destroy them.”
How The Media Covered It: Sources across the spectrum covered the events similarly.
It just keeps getting better.
www.foxnews.com
Russian jet collides with US drone in international airspace over Black Sea, official says
A Russian fighter jet collided with a U.S. military drone in international airspace over the Black Sea on Tuesday, according to defense officials.
LightRoasted
If I may ...
For your consideration ...
Funny. It wasn't a true collision. They intentionally interfered the drone's propeller rotation. Aka, they caused the aircraft to strike the drone's prop. Or, they flew their jet into the drone's prop to bring it down.
It just keeps getting better.
Russian jet collides with US drone in international airspace over Black Sea, official says
A Russian fighter jet collided with a U.S. military drone in international airspace over the Black Sea on Tuesday, according to defense officials.
Funny. It wasn't a true collision. They intentionally interfered the drone's propeller rotation. Aka, they caused the aircraft to strike the drone's prop. Or, they flew their jet into the drone's prop to bring it down.
The Wall Street Journal ran a surprisingly optimistic story yesterday headlined, “Russian Jet Collides With U.S. Drone Over Black Sea.” While the article doesn’t say this explicitly, it reveals that the people in charge of the Proxy War on both sides are working hard to avoid a catastrophic result.It’s hard to say which, the DOD or the Russians, is likely being more honest. I’m sure you remember the detailed and reliable information that the DOD recently provided about the Chinese war balloons, a problem which apparently has completely resolved with any further information from military officials being necessary, don’t trouble your pretty little head about it.
Anyway, the Wall Street Journal reported yesterday the DOD’s version that, after the Russians discovered a peaceful, $15M unmanned MQ-9 “Reaper” surveillance drone was minding its own business and not hurting anybody running general maneuvers somewhere over international waters in the Black Sea, a Russian fighter jet did a flyby and dumped fuel on the drone, then a second fighter attempted the same maneuver but couldn’t pull it off and accidentally collided with the drone, forcing the Reaper’s operators to land the aircraft in the Black Sea. For everyone’s safety.
The DOD said won’t recover the multi-million-dollar high-tech drone — why would it? — and for that matter doesn’t even know exactly where it is. And that is all the DOD is going to say about that. In a statement, the DOD’s European Command criticized the Russians — I am not making this up — for POOR ENVIRONMENTALISM and being “unprofessional”:
Those two charges are obviously ridiculous, which highlights the ABSENCE of escalatory rhetoric. The DOD is clearly attributing the collision to an accident and NOT Russian aggression.
As you can see from the map below, the Reaper drone — which is also called a “hunter-killer” and carries FIFTEEN TIMES as much ordnance than the prior model — splashed down near the southern tip of Crimea — i.e., Russian territory. The DOD said it was just minding its own business and conducting a “routine mission in international waters.”
Now let’s hear the Russian version of events.
In its own statement, the Russian Ministry of Defense says that a U.S. drone flight was detected in Russia’s Crimean region, heading in the direction of the Russian border. The drone’s transponders were turned off, violating airspace rules and posing a danger to aircraft in the area. Russian fighter jets scrambled in response.
The Russians say its fighters did not use their WEAPONS — which is consistent with fuel dumping — and deny contacting the US drone. The Russians say that as a result of “sharp maneuvering,” the U.S. drone went into “uncontrolled flight with a loss of altitude” and “collided with the water surface.”
Other unverifiable online sources claim that the Russians have recovered the multi-million dollar unmanned aircraft, which features some of the U.S.’s top tech. Neither side officially commented on where the drone is now; in other words, neither side denied the Russians have the drone.
Furthermore, both sides claimed the collision was accidental — nobody’s fault — and merely blamed the accident on each other’s bad flying. So, while the hot takes are screaming about nearly starting a hot war, to me it looks more like cooler heads on both sides rapidly de-escalated any potential conflict. That’s the best news I’ve seen from the Proxy War in months.
☕️ COLLISION ☙ Wednesday, March 15, 2023 ☙ C&C NEWS 🦠
What's the "current thing" these days? Reason prevails as the US and Russia collide; SVB board even more incompetent than you thought; DeSantis says Ukraine not a vital interest; and more.
www.coffeeandcovid.com
Hijinx
Well-Known Member
I guess it depends on who's story you want to believe.
It’s hard to say which, the DOD or the Russians, is likely being more honest. I’m sure you remember the detailed and reliable information that the DOD recently provided about the Chinese war balloons, a problem which apparently has completely resolved with any further information from military officials being necessary, don’t trouble your pretty little head about it.
Anyway, the Wall Street Journal reported yesterday the DOD’s version that, after the Russians discovered a peaceful, $15M unmanned MQ-9 “Reaper” surveillance drone was minding its own business and not hurting anybody running general maneuvers somewhere over international waters in the Black Sea, a Russian fighter jet did a flyby and dumped fuel on the drone, then a second fighter attempted the same maneuver but couldn’t pull it off and accidentally collided with the drone, forcing the Reaper’s operators to land the aircraft in the Black Sea. For everyone’s safety.
The DOD said won’t recover the multi-million-dollar high-tech drone — why would it? — and for that matter doesn’t even know exactly where it is. And that is all the DOD is going to say about that. In a statement, the DOD’s European Command criticized the Russians — I am not making this up — for POOR ENVIRONMENTALISM and being “unprofessional”:
Those two charges are obviously ridiculous, which highlights the ABSENCE of escalatory rhetoric. The DOD is clearly attributing the collision to an accident and NOT Russian aggression.
As you can see from the map below, the Reaper drone — which is also called a “hunter-killer” and carries FIFTEEN TIMES as much ordnance than the prior model — splashed down near the southern tip of Crimea — i.e., Russian territory. The DOD said it was just minding its own business and conducting a “routine mission in international waters.”
Now let’s hear the Russian version of events.
In its own statement, the Russian Ministry of Defense says that a U.S. drone flight was detected in Russia’s Crimean region, heading in the direction of the Russian border. The drone’s transponders were turned off, violating airspace rules and posing a danger to aircraft in the area. Russian fighter jets scrambled in response.
The Russians say its fighters did not use their WEAPONS — which is consistent with fuel dumping — and deny contacting the US drone. The Russians say that as a result of “sharp maneuvering,” the U.S. drone went into “uncontrolled flight with a loss of altitude” and “collided with the water surface.”
Other unverifiable online sources claim that the Russians have recovered the multi-million dollar unmanned aircraft, which features some of the U.S.’s top tech. Neither side officially commented on where the drone is now; in other words, neither side denied the Russians have the drone.
Furthermore, both sides claimed the collision was accidental — nobody’s fault — and merely blamed the accident on each other’s bad flying. So, while the hot takes are screaming about nearly starting a hot war, to me it looks more like cooler heads on both sides rapidly de-escalated any potential conflict. That’s the best news I’ve seen from the Proxy War in months.
☕️ COLLISION ☙ Wednesday, March 15, 2023 ☙ C&C NEWS 🦠
What's the "current thing" these days? Reason prevails as the US and Russia collide; SVB board even more incompetent than you thought; DeSantis says Ukraine not a vital interest; and more.
Certainly we have to realize one thing. Our drone was not being flown just off the Crimean border for the fun of it.
It more than likely had a mission. Probably a spy mission since it's pretty certain it wasn't there for an attack on anything.
Pretty sure the Russians are correct in saying it's transponder was turned off, although I doubt it presented a danger to other planes.
It definitely went down , no matter what the reason, and since we have no intention of recovering it and it is so close to Crimea it is possible they have it. In other words the Russian story sounds more honest than ours.
Sorry, Media Nerds, The War In Ukraine Is Literally A ‘Territorial Dispute’
DeSantis should say it one more time for the people in the back. The war is literally a dispute over territory. Russian leadership claims Ukraine as its own and the Kremlin’s settlement offers are based almost solely on territory concessions (with some details related to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization).
“I believe that Russians and Ukrainians are one people … one nation, in fact,” Russian President Vladimir Putin said in 2019. In some parts of Ukraine, even Ukrainians claim that. “Many In Eastern Ukraine Want To Join Russia,” read a NPR headline in 2017.
The Washington Post last year found at least 15 percent of residents of Ukraine’s Donbas region said they wanted to join Russia. Maybe, just maybe, this has something to do with Russia and Ukraine being literally part of the same nation for more than half a century.
I know that’s not very sexy for the nerds in the media who prefer to think of the war like a Marvel movie where a corny villain can be overpowered by a united and freedom-loving Justice League, but that’s not the case.
Democracy is at stake!
ICC issues arrest warrant for Putin over Ukraine war crimes
The International Criminal Court said Friday it has issued an arrest warrant for Russian President Vladimir Putin for war crimes because of his alleged involvement in abductions of children from Ukraine.The court said in a statement that Putin “is allegedly responsible for the war crime of unlawful deportation of population (children) and that of unlawful transfer of population (children) from occupied areas of Ukraine to the Russian Federation.…