Understanding Taqiyya

[punjabigyrl]

Like the Shia's we hitched our wagon to in Iraq?

I was not there with you so I will take your word for it.

 

[Larry Gude]

I was not there with you so I will take your word for it.

I wasn't there either but, the results don't much seem to be what the Bush team was expecting. So, based on your comments, which I understand to be, basically, accurate, that Shia's are adherents to the principle and Sunni's are not and we backed Shia's until we'd created a big enough civil war, it seems reasonable to discern that the Shia's played us for the fools we are.

 

[Gilligan]

This article talks about Taqqiya but it does NOT stress that this is a concept only followed by the Shia sect ONLY. She has lumped the concept to every muslims on earth.

You try make it sound like the Shia are a tiny minority of Muslims.

 

[Radiant1]

You try make it sound like the Shia are a tiny minority of Muslims.

I didn't take her statement that way but never the less, according to a BBC article dated December 2013, Shia are only 10% of the Muslim population. Other sources cite anywhere from 7.5% to 30%. Either way, to lump them all together would be like saying Catholics believe you have to be born again or Protestants honor the Virgin Mary, which would be false.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-25434060

 

[baydoll]

The Religion of Peace:

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

 

[Gilligan]

I didn't take her statement that way but never the less, according to a BBC article dated December 2013, Shia are only 10% of the Muslim population. Other sources cite anywhere from 7.5% to 30%. Either way, to lump them all together would be like saying Catholics believe you have to be born again or Protestants honor the Virgin Mary, which would be false.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-25434060

I read several sources that put the Shia at nearly 40% of the middle eastern population (% of total population) and around 15% of the world Muslim population. And taken in the context of her previous posts, it was quite obvious she wanted the marginalize the mere existence of Shia Muslims...and dismiss them out of hand. That's the standard spin. It does not work.

 

[mAlice]

The Religion of Peace:

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

a link on that page took me to this article, where I found an interesting comment.

Many progressive leaders in the West do not understand the threat posed by Islam because they cannot get their collective heads around the idea that religion is still a force in the world. Unlike secular progressives, ISIS troops do believe in a god and are willing to die for that god.

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2014...litary_tactics_of_muhammad.html#ixzz3Gnk0MpTd
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

 

[PJay]

http://ricochet.com/archives/why-liberals-love-islam/

Interesting read.

 

[GURPS]

Franco

Your post is extremely informative and interesting. However, I think the reasons for this phenomenon are mundane. Leftists hate and fear their immediate threat, American conservatives, devout Christians and Republicans. In the enemy of my enemy is my friend thinking, Republicans *hate* Muslims, Islamists hate Jews (many lefties secretly hate Jews too especially right wing Israeli types) and Christians so there is an alliance right there.

Radical Muslims are victims and right-wing Americans who made them that way. Sure they don’t like the radical Muslims but it’s not their fault (more condescending racism) it was colonials and Bush who made them hate us.

Furthermore all muslims aren’t bad. The ones I know (narcissistic solipsism) are nice and they are discriminated against and misunderstood by ignorant right-wing bigots.

So you see, it is at once complicated and simple. The simple-minded leftist thinks the issue is complicated and they think others are being simplistic and ignorant.

Felling superior and nuanced is very enjoyable for them.

that follow on was better .....

 

[Radiant1]

I read several sources that put the Shia at nearly 40% of the middle eastern population (% of total population) and around 15% of the world Muslim population. And taken in the context of her previous posts, it was quite obvious she wanted the marginalize the mere existence of Shia Muslims...and dismiss them out of hand. That's the standard spin. It does not work.

That would still leave 60% of the population that DOES NOT practice or believe in taqqiya; therefore, the article is incorrect by lumping all Muslims with the act. That's not to say that taqqiya isn't an issue when it comes to Middle East matters, but punjabigyrl was correct to make the observation.

 

[Larry Gude]

That would still leave 60% of the population that DOES NOT practice or believe in taqqiya; therefore, the article is incorrect by lumping all Muslims with the act. That's not to say that taqqiya isn't an issue when it comes to Middle East matters, but punjabigyrl was correct to make the observation.

But, again, it is critical to OUR national interests and problems because we backed the Shia's in Iraq (Chalabi et al) and it could go a ways towards understanding why they didn't much do what we wanted and expected; they never were because they simply used us. I'm not saying they were wrong to; we do it to people's all the time. I'm pointing it out to to illustrate that part of the reason it seems like we didn't know what we were getting into is because...we didn't.

 

[Radiant1]

But, again, it is critical to OUR national interests and problems because we backed the Shia's in Iraq (Chalabi et al) and it could go a ways towards understanding why they didn't much do what we wanted and expected; they never were because they simply used us. I'm not saying they were wrong to; we do it to people's all the time. I'm pointing it out to to illustrate that part of the reason it seems like we didn't know what we were getting into is because...we didn't.

I think you and Gilligan are missing the very simple point. Punjabigyrl was not making a statement about Middle East issues, rather she was making an observation that the article is misleading in one aspect and why. Her point is not that hard to understand...unless you don't want to.

 

[Larry Gude]

I think you and Gilligan are missing the very simple point. Punjabigyrl was not making a statement about Middle East issues, rather she was making an observation that the article is misleading in one aspect and why. Her point is not that hard to understand...unless you don't want to.

Oh yeah? Well. I think you're missing the point.

Islam is an enormous issue for the US and our dealings in Iraq are a HUGE part of that. That Iraq is largely Shia, as is neighboring Iran, is a HUGE part of this HUGE issue. Punjabi's point is akin to saying only 12% of the US population is black when we're talking about inner city drug and crime problems and what to do about them. Yeah, they're only 12% of the population but, they're a HUGE component if we're talking about the inner cities.

And, again, with Islam, we're talking about Iraq first and foremost and over 60% of Iraqi's, going on 100% at this rate, are Shia's and if Shia's are very comfortable with telling you (us) whatever they think we want to hear in order to get what they want, control of the country and virtually elimination of Sunni's in governing the nation, then, it's a pretty big deal.

Further, we also don't understand Sunnis' (bin Laden, Al queda, Taliban, Saudi Arabia, ISIS). So, we keep on losing and wondering what happened just like anyone else who can't be bothered to learn what they're dealing with before waving the flags and calling for patriotism against "THEM".

 

[mAlice]

I'm sure these were the non-violent Muslims that convinced these teenagers to leave their families and fly to Syria.

Authorities have not said how they think the girls became interested in helping the Islamic State militants. In Conley's case, she told agents she wanted to marry a suitor she met online who said he was a Tunisian man fighting with the Islamic State group in Syria.

Are you watching what you're children are doing on the internet?

http://news.yahoo.com/fbi-us-girls-may-tried-join-jihadis-203307941.html

 

[Gilligan]

I think you and Gilligan are missing the very simple point..

Nope.

What Larry said.


You are confusing someone's attempt to oversimplify, marginalize or dismiss a point, with our having missed it. IMHO.


If the Sunnis do not, in fact, practice Taqiyya, then I feel a whole lot better about them now...I'm sure Al Qaeda is just misunderstood. Err.....

 

[Radiant1]

None of that changes the fact that the article was misleading about taqqiya and who practices it.

Carry on...

 

[Gilligan]

None of that changes the fact that the article was misleading about taqqiya and who practices it.

Carry on...

Look!..squirrel!

 

[mAlice]

None of that changes the fact that the article was misleading about taqqiya and who practices it.

Carry on...

The only article posted in defense of your line of thought was also misleading. The statement in the article "Accurate figures for the breakdown of the Muslim population into the various strands are not available as almost no censuses or surveys ask Muslims about which they are" pretty much nullifies the figures.

 

[Radiant1]

The only article posted in defense of your line of thought was also misleading. The statement in the article "Accurate figures for the breakdown of the Muslim population into the various strands are not available as almost no censuses or surveys ask Muslims about which they are" pretty much nullifies the figures.

I'm curious, what exactly do you think my "line of thought" is?

 

[mAlice]

I'm curious, what exactly do you think my "line of thought" is?

Based on your posts, it looked like you were in agreement with proxima and bigyrl. That the majority of Muslims are peaceful. No?