US Marines killed innocent women and children

[RangerJohn]

I see were back to name calling. Go ahead call me all the names you want if it makes you feel better.
I'll respond to your analysis of the a bomb because those people who who were killed actually stopped the war. Just as Im sure if we vaporized Iraq, Iran and all the other countries/dictators against us would listen. Problem is, we arn't the only one with the bomb as was the case back then.

Im sure the marines are getting more sleep than the women and children they may have murdered. Dont give me this pressure sh**. If that were the case, then im sure many more marines would be under investigation. We are taking about a very few. I know and appreciate that 99.9999999 percent of our marines are professional and I am proud of those. My problem is with the minority who may have commited war crimes. Call me what ever you want, but this american will not turn a blind eye to murdered women and children. These were not unavoidable casualties, these were possible war crimes.

In the memorable words of Colonel Jessup:


we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, fstabbo? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for dead Iraqi's , and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That those Iraqi's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just brought me a beer and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

 

[ylexot]

My favorite line is "Thank you for playing! Should we, or should we not listen to the advice of the galactically stupid?"

 

[morganj614]

My friend, a war criminal is a war criminal. Period. Evidence is evidence. We know it is a fact that these marines covered up the story. Killing children as they sleep will not be deemed justified. Tactics are not changing. When there is evidence to support a massacre, it will and should be investigated.

I am not reading this whole damn thread. War "crimes?" War is war....Women and children are used and sacrifice themselves in war for their cause. Our Marines/service members are not a disgrace. You and I sit comfortably at home while they deal with situations we cannot imagine. I hate the fact we have Americans fighting a war. I know service members that feel the same way but they don't have a choice but to go fight and die...for what? So we can sit here and complain about what has now become the politically correct way to fight in a war. You go over there. You see your buddy blown to bits and let's see how you react.

 

[Mikeinsmd]

BS....who is gonna pick the damned lettuce for my Caesar Salad?

Pick your own slacker...

Someone had a siggy line quoting a movie that said something to the effect of "make a war so gruesome no one will want to wager it".

And another from I think Mission Impossible, "They take out one of our marines, we take out one of their platoons" (or something like that).

We will be fighting these animals forever until we adopt this mentality.

 

[ylexot]

Someone had a siggy line quoting a movie that said something to the effect of "make a war so gruesome no one will want to wager it".

Maybe my old sig quote from Swordfish:
"Stanley: War? Who are we at war with?
Gabriel: Anyone who impinges on America's freedom. Terrorist states, Stanley. Someone must bring their war to them. They bomb a church, we bomb 10. They hijack a plane, we take out an airport. They execute American tourist, we tactically nuke an entire city. Our job is to make terrorism so horrific that is becomes unthinkable to attack Americans."

 

[Mikeinsmd]

Maybe my old sig quote from Swordfish:
"Stanley: War? Who are we at war with?
Gabriel: Anyone who impinges on America's freedom. Terrorist states, Stanley. Someone must bring their war to them. They bomb a church, we bomb 10. They hijack a plane, we take out an airport. They execute American tourist, we tactically nuke an entire city. Our job is to make terrorism so horrific that is becomes unthinkable to attack Americans."

YES!!!! Thank you Yle!!

 

[frstabbo]

I am not reading this whole damn thread. War "crimes?" War is war....Women and children are used and sacrifice themselves in war for their cause. Our Marines/service members are not a disgrace. You and I sit comfortably at home while they deal with situations we cannot imagine. I hate the fact we have Americans fighting a war. I know service members that feel the same way but they don't have a choice but to go fight and die...for what? So we can sit here and complain about what has now become the politically correct way to fight in a war. You go over there. You see your buddy blown to bits and let's see how you react.

Our marine code forbids the killing of the innocent, so why are you defending it? These women and children did nothing to us and were not a danger to anyone. Thats against our laws and international law. Like it or not buddy. Watching your buddy get blown up does not give you the right to go shoot some innocent children for revenge. If they did kill innocent children then they are a discrace to America and to the marines. There is no excuse for murdering innocent people.

 

[frstabbo]

Maybe my old sig quote from Swordfish:
"Stanley: War? Who are we at war with?
Gabriel: Anyone who impinges on America's freedom. Terrorist states, Stanley. Someone must bring their war to them. They bomb a church, we bomb 10. They hijack a plane, we take out an airport. They execute American tourist, we tactically nuke an entire city. Our job is to make terrorism so horrific that is becomes unthinkable to attack Americans."

Holllywood does not have the answers my friend. You cannot use terror on terrorists. They couldnt care less about their lives. And you will never kill them all.

 

[BuddyLee]

Holllywood does not have the answers my friend. You cannot use terror on terrorists. They couldnt care less about their lives. And you will never kill them all.

Exactly, so how do you know who might be innocent in a split seconds time?

Vietnam anyone?

 

[RangerJohn]

Don't complain if your not willing to do something yourself

You are so quick to want to castigate the whole Marine Corps over what you admittedly call the 00.01% who alledgedly committed this atrocity (and until proven in a court of law, governed by the Uniform Military Code of Justice, what these Marines may or may have not done is know only to those Marines, the victims, and to God. These Marines still have constitutional rights. Maybe not as many as a civilian might.) Most American's have a myopia that they believe that our Soldiers and Marines are the only ones killing Iraqi's or Afghani's and even faced with cold, hard facts, would not accept that the native insurgents are killing more of their own countrymen that a few misguided kids have. God forbid that some Iraqi die, when a Marine can die instead.

Were these Marines human beings, with their own weaknesses, and placed in a situation so confusing and stressful, that I seriously doubt you could ever comprehend? (I suggest you head down the the recruiter and sign up for a tour. It might just give you a more intense and personal perspective.) I'm not saying these Marines are innocent, but if you had ever been given the honor of representing your country in combat, then you might not be so quick to judge those who have been put in sh*tty situation. Sometimes you just have to make the best of poor choices and opportunities.

It is easy to sit on the sidelines, it is much harder to actually do something. I suggest you go pick up a rifle or a medical bag (they need Corpsman there too.) and see how your perspective changes. I don't care if you are 19 or 90, when you are in the service, you do have at your will, the means to decide life or death...even if you might lack the judgement necessary....(God is only qualified to decide that) But as I said, you are in a sh*tty situation, and have to make a decision in a nano-second that will not only affect the rest of your life, but also those of your squad or platoon. Unlike Nintendo or Playstation, you only get to play one time and there is no reset button.

So go pick up a gun and stand a post.

 

[BuddyLee]

You are so quick to want to castigate the whole Marine Corps over what you admittedly call the 00.01% who alledgedly committed this atrocity (and until proven in a court of law, governed by the Uniform Military Code of Justice, what these Marines may or may have not done is know only to those Marines, the victims, and to God. These Marines still have constitutional rights. Maybe not as many as a civilian might.) Most American's have a myopia that they believe that our Soldiers and Marines are the only ones killing Iraqi's or Afghani's and even faced with cold, hard facts, would not accept that the native insurgents are killing more of their own countrymen that a few misguided kids have. God forbid that some Iraqi die, when a Marine can die instead.

Were these Marines human beings, with their own weaknesses, and placed in a situation so confusing and stressful, that I seriously doubt you could ever comprehend? (I suggest you head down the the recruiter and sign up for a tour. It might just give you a more intense and personal perspective.) I'm not saying these Marines are innocent, but if you had ever been given the honor of representing your country in combat, then you might not be so quick to judge those who have been put in sh*tty situation. Sometimes you just have to make the best of poor choices and opportunities.

It is easy to sit on the sidelines, it is much harder to actually do something. I suggest you go pick up a rifle or a medical bag (they need Corpsman there too.) and see how your perspective changes. I don't care if you are 19 or 90, when you are in the service, you do have at your will, the means to decide life or death...even if you might lack the judgement necessary....(God is only qualified to decide that) But as I said, you are in a sh*tty situation, and have to make a decision in a nano-second that will not only affect the rest of your life, but also those of your squad or platoon. Unlike Nintendo or Playstation, you only get to play one time and there is no reset button.

So go pick up a gun and stand a post.

Direct your attention elsewhere Dudely DoRight. I wasn't agreeing with frstabbo, read again.

 

[RangerJohn]

Yo Buddy....I fixed the post. Sorry you got the shrapnel.

 

[BuddyLee]

Yo Buddy....I fixed the post. Sorry you got the shrapnel.

It's ok. Pardon my rebuttal.

 

[RangerJohn]

It's ok. Pardon my rebuttal.

No worries BuddyLee....fog of war...darn...sorta proves a point, eh?

 

[BuddyLee]

No worries BuddyLee....fog of war...darn...sorta proves a point, eh?

If only everyone else knew...if only I knew as much. My bud is over there right now, I talk to him every great once in awhile. Sounds like hell the way he describes it.

 

[frstabbo]

But as I said, you are in a sh*tty situation, and have to make a decision in a nano-second that will not only affect the rest of your life, but also those of your squad or platoon. Unlike Nintendo or Playstation, you only get to play one time and there is no reset button.

So go pick up a gun and stand a post.

We are not talking about a nano-second decision here, were talking about terror that was planned and may have been committed by our marrines. Our guy got blown up so we are gonna go kill a bunch of iraqi's mentality. These people were not a threat. My family lived under the worlds most brutal dictator in the secont world war (under the nazis.) My uncle and father were on the extermination list and escaped to the mountains and lived there to avoid capture. My father told me many stories how the nazis came into towns and shot up innocent families because one nazi soilder was attacked.
Did that stop the resistance? No it didnt. Although , I was not there, I am well aware of the horrors of war.

 

[RangerJohn]

until YOU are there you wouldn't really understand.

You, however, were not under that threat. You can pass along all the 2nd and 3rd hand information you want, but until you yourself are in the crucible you cannot truly appreciate the situation.

My Father did multiple tours of Vietnam and Korea, my Father-in-law somehow survived the Bataan Death March...but their stories did not prepare me for the gravity of the situation when it was my turn. Part of you has to set aside temporarily the idea, that it is a sin to kill, only to have to remember your humanity again, literally within seconds. It is a difficult concept to consider in the abstract, and even harder when it is reality.

You would not either, until you personally had to pick up the pieces of a friend, who you'd shared hardships, hopes and beers with, basically a part of your life, and put them quickly into a plastic bag. You get no time to reflect, or grieve, or you might find yourself in a bag next to them. I'm not saying these lads are innocent...(only a court of law can say they are guilty, and they do deserve a day in court, don't they? Or is that only for folks like OJ, Baretta, and Ken Lay?)

Again, it would be good for you to find out for yourself about these things, before spouting off 2nd and 3rd hand information. Do you really believe everything you read in the paper and see on TV? Perhaps you are the one person who could encourage the troops to hold on to their morality instead of reverting to the primal instinct of revenge? If you really read the news reports, you will find that this is not isolated to just Marines...our allies, the Brits among them, are also dealing with this. Some of the other countries do sweep this under the rug; but thankfully, ours is a reflective nation, and some of our people do have the moral courage to stand up for what is right and question things. How do you think we got the information in the first place? A Marine, with moral courage, did bring this to someone's attention. You should be applauding that Marine, who did witness the carnage personally, who was able to hold on to his sense of humanity, and still had the guts to go against superior NCO's and Officers, and report his findings.

I find it ironic you bring up Hitler ....99.9% of the population in Iraq (or Iran, or Syria, or damn near anywhere else in the ME except for Israel....)would tell you that Hitler didn't do enough. And I'll bet you didn't even think about the idea that the Iraqi's (Sunni and Shiite) are commiting more atrocities against their fellow citizens, that the entire coalition has.

This whole topic needs to go away, I get the feeling that some of my fellow citizens do not comprehend the costs at which their freedom is maintained, and that troubles me.

 

[morganj614]

This whole topic needs to go away, I get the feeling that some of my fellow citizens do not comprehend the costs at which their freedom is maintained, and that troubles me.

Our service members are at war, not a tea party like some seem to think. I know I cannot comprehend the full scope of what goes on. Maybe if I didn't have children that were/are serving our country I'd think different. I can't fully comprehend the heartbreak my son has every time he tells a family their child won't be back. I only know what I feel.
So let's all sit comfy in our homes thinking those men and women fighting are not human but robots with no feelings. Let's pretend this is doing nothing to their emotions and they will all return like they saw and heard nothing. Let's not judge them until we have been put in their situation.

 

[vraiblonde]

My father told me many stories how the nazis came into towns and shot up innocent families because one nazi soilder was attacked.
Did that stop the resistance? No it didnt.

Stop right there. Go back and check your history before you spew that crap. The Nazis brutal tactics did indeed squelch the resistance. France, fell. Great Britain, fell. And whatever "resistance" that was left was a mere nuisance to the Nazis, not a huge threat.

So, indeed, shooting up innocent families is a pretty effective way to cower your enemy and gain control.

 

[ylexot]

Our marine code forbids the killing of the innocent, so why are you defending it?

Why do you continue to assume that the Marines are guilty? What happened to this:

'Possible' and nothing more or less to date.

Agreed. lets wait and see what happens.