What is Islam?

abdulhaqq

New Member
The following is a direct response to "Hessian" et al who claims that Islam has made no contribution to human civilization.

In addition to the "Philosophy of Kalam" by Harry Wolfson (I inserted the link in the previous post) which highlights Muslim contribution to Jewish and Christian theology, here is an article that explains Muslim contribution to European Medicine:

The Arab Roots of European Medicine

Written by David W. Tschanz

In the "General Prologue" of The Canterbury Tales , Geoffrey Chaucer identifies the authorities used by his "Doctour of Physic" in the six lines quoted above. The list includes four Arab physicians: Jesu Haly (Ibn 'Isa), Razi (Al-Razi, or Rhazes), Avycen (Ibn Sina, or Avicenna) and Averrois (Ibn Rushd, or Averroes). These four did not make Chaucer's list only to add an exotic flavor to his late-14th-century poetry. Chaucer cited them because they were regarded as among the great medical authorities of the ancient world and the European Middle Ages, physicians whose textbooks were used in European medical schools, and would be for centuries to come. First collecting, then translating, then augmenting and finally codifying the classical Greco-Roman heritage that Europe had lost, Arab physicians of the eighth to eleventh century laid the foundations of the institutions and the science of modern medicine.

Read More Here
 

Geek

New Member
abdulhaqq said:
Dear Vraiblonde

For Muslims, the war on terrorism is not a war of 'defense', it is basically a civil war between moderate mainstream Muslims and a fringe minority.

Although it is unfortunately true that a good deal of Muslims happen to be terrorists, the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not terrorists and condemn there actions.

Lets not forget that it is Muslims who are fighting against Al Qaeda in Iraq and in Afghanistan and all over the world just as vigorously as non-Muslims. This war isn't about "Islam versus the West", it is about those who believe in compassion and civility as a way of life against those who don't.


As was stated above, see the fatwa cited above that prohibits the criminal acts of terrorists who use beheadings.

In fact, please read the original post that contains a plethora of sources that condemn terrorism in any way, shape or form.

With Peace,

Abdulhaqq



I hope you ment "a good deal of terroists happen to be Muslim"
 

Hessian

Well-Known Member
What an interesting coincidence!

"The designer of the Sears Tower was a Muslim"...

The guys who want to blow it up are moslems too! Imagine the odds....
 

Hessian

Well-Known Member
Was Freud Moslem?

"Seventy, I honestly could care less about most of your claims."


gee, what do you have on your mind abdul?
 
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Hessian

Well-Known Member
Yup,...real thinkers.

"Islam is not built upon blind faith..."

Tell that to the loonies roaming around a black rock in 120 degree heat after they trampled 350 to death last year.

...there is your real thinkers I tell ya.
 

Pete

Repete
abdulhaqq said:
Dear Hessian,

You've made several statements that I will address in succession.


Secondly, with regards to Israel, most Muslims all over the world have no problem with accepting Israel as a state. In fact, the Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas is calling exactly for this. He happens to be a Muslim. Its another group, HAMAS, which is calling for the extermination of Israel. Israel's neighbors have also recognized it. Lets not forget Jordan, Egypt, and Turkey, all of whom happen to be Muslim countries.

With Peace,
Abdulhaqq
Then why would the Palestinian people elect Hamas as part of their government? And why would Hezbollah be a large part of the government of Lebanon? Publicly swears to eradicate Israel through terrorist activity, rocket attacks, kidnapping, suicide bombs and yet the "peaceful" Muslim citizens in those countries elect those terrorist organizations to be part of their government. Even hold cabinet positions.:confused:
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
abdulhaqq said:
...
I find it interesting that you're telling me that its 'irrational' to believe in one God who asks humanity to believe in Him through proofs and not blind faith, yet you divide God into three parts which is logically absurd and yet claim that he's one and take it on blind faith. What's the proof for that? Is it rational or is it based on blind faith? ...
That is your and your fellow Muslims' misunderstanding of Christianity. God humbled Himself to become man in order to be the only sacrifice to save humans from their sin. The Holy Spirit is God as He lives in those that accept Him. There is only one God in Christianity.

You have a physical self. Right? You have a spiritual self. Right? You exist in two forms and you are only a human. You do believe God is everywhere and is all powerful and can do anything? Or is the god of Islam an inferior god that is limited? The God of Abraham, the God of Moses, the God of Adam is not limited in any way. I thought that is the God you said you worshiped? If it is, then why do Muslims profess to limit the power and presence of God?

God loves me. God loves you. God loves even those that do not believe in Him. That is the reason He came as Jesus. Do I have blind faith? No. My eyes are wide open to the miracles God has done in my life and in the universe all around. If people did not praise God, then the very rocks would cry out His praises. God is as real as any physical being and greater than all, existing from time before imagination to time unimaginable. God is the Alpha and the Omega. Everything and everyone, all of creation exists by His will.

Even if God chooses to divide Himself into a thousand entities and call each of them by Their own name, what is that to puny humans? Who are we to say He can't do something? God is here as I type this; living in me. He is everywhere. He is at the extents of the the universe and beyond. Can you imagine the universe? Einstein said he couldn't. I can't. God created all of creation; the universe we see and all that we know nothing of. God is without limit and He is one God.
 
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2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
abdulhaqq said:
The Arabic bible refers to God as "Allah"

Read More Here.
And when Christians profess their faith in God and preach the gospel of Jesus, God as the Savior of mankind, to Arab people, they use the word Allah since, as I understand it, Allah means God.

Since you say Islam worships the God of Adam, the God of Moses, and the God of Abraham, why is it that Muslims think that Christians and Jews worship a false God since Christians and Jews worship the God of Adam, the God of Moses, and the God of Abraham? Same God seems to me. The difference is Christians know humans cannot be perfect. Do you think you are perfect? Sin, any sin, is imperfection and God is perfect and cannot allow the imperfect into His kingdom. God, being perfect, knows that mankind cannot be perfect. He knew that from creation and had planned the salvation of mankind through His sacrifice on a cross as a man, God come as man, in order to provide the only perfect sacrifice to save mankind from sin.

See, God, in His infinite mercy, knew that 2A, Abdulhaqq, Ken, Kain, Hessian, and every human could not be perfect so God provided the perfect sacrifice to cover our sins so that we could be perfect before Him. He provided Himself as the sacrifice. His blood covers our sins. When we accept His sacrifice for us, He throws our sins as far as east is from west. He no longer sees our imperfection but sees His own perfection because He chooses to because He loves you, Ken, Kain, Hessian, and every human, and even me.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Geek said:
I hope you ment "a good deal of terroists happen to be Muslim"
No - he was clear and correct:
Although it is unfortunately true that a good deal of Muslims happen to be terrorists, the overwhelming majority of Muslims are not terrorists and condemn there actions.
Two to three million Muslim terrorists is nothing to sneeze at. But in light of their 1.8 billion (with a b) global population, terrorists are really a small percentage of the whole.

Which begs the question of why Muslims can't control their violent brethren minority, and the answer is "because they don't want to". There's a reason why so many Mulsim terrorist acts happen in other countries, but they're very rare in the US. Paris has this huge uprising with all these "disaffected" Muslims rioting. Palestinians blow up Israeli nightclubs and grocery stores filled with civilians rather routinely. They blow up embassies as they please.

Yet we don't have that here, why? Because our government won't stand for it. The only reason it happens in Israel so frequently is because Muslims live right there and have fairly easy access.

If you think the Saudis, Turks and Pakistanis don't turn a blind eye to, if not actually encourage, terrorism, think again. Why do you suppose the US had to go all the way over to Afghanistan to fight Al Qaeda? Why wouldn't the neighbors have taken charge of this?

Answer: because they don't want to. They hate Israel and the US just as much as any suicide bomber.

Can you imagine if Canada had a rogue faction that was blowing up civilians on a regular basis, then running into our country for safe haven? Do you think the US would ignore the situation and Australia or Japan would have to send troops to contain the problem? And, PS, in the unlikely event that that happened, do you think the US would deny them use of our airspace to make the trip?

I realize this rant is more appropriate to Politics than Religion, but the topic is here, and Islam is just as much about politics as it is religion these days.
 

AliSamana

New Member
2ndAmendment said:
That is your and your fellow Muslims' misunderstanding of Christianity. God humbled Himself to become man in order to be the only sacrifice to save humans from their sin. The Holy Spirit is God as He lives in those that accept Him. There is only one God in Christianity.

You have a physical self. Right? You have a spiritual self. Right? You exist in two forms and you are only a human. You do believe God is everywhere and is all powerful and can do anything? Or is the god of Islam an inferior god that is limited? The God of Abraham, the God of Moses, the God of Adam is not limited in any way. I thought that is the God you said you worshiped? If it is, then why do Muslims profess to limit the power and presence of God?
God loves me. God loves you. God loves even those that do not believe in Him. That is the reason He came as Jesus. Do I have blind faith? No. My eyes are wide open to the miracles God has done in my life and in the universe all around. If people did not praise God, then the very rocks would cry out His praises. God is as real as any physical being and greater than all, existing from time before imagination to time unimaginable. God is the Alpha and the Omega. Everything and everyone, all of creation exists by His will.

Even if God chooses to divide Himself into a thousand entities and call each of them by Their own name, what is that to puny humans? Who are we to say He can't do something? God is here as I type this; living in me. He is everywhere. He is at the extents of the the universe and beyond. Can you imagine the universe? Einstein said he couldn't. I can't. God created all of creation; the universe we see and all that we know nothing of. God is without limit and He is one God.

Though we don't believe in the trinity as Muslims, I will tell you that is one of the best explanations of trinity I have heard. I am always up for open conversation like this.

Muslims do not put limit on God, as a matter of fact, we prefer to use Allah because you can't make the word Allah plural or make it gender specific. Muslims have the utmost respect for the diving being, I remember someone had said they pray countless times a day. Muslims pray when they wake up, before they go to the bathroom, when they get out of the bathroom, when they put on their clothes, before they eat breakfast, after they eat breakfast, and that is not including the obligatory morning prayer, and I am not even finished with my morning routing :) Talk about countless...
 

AliSamana

New Member
2ndAmendment said:
I asked some real questions. They were never answered. Let me try again.

Sorry about the delay in responding. Had alot going on yesterday. Why is it the Christians and Jews cannot prasy freely in Muslim Countries. I believe, like many muslims, that Islam has been perverted by extremist. The best way to answer this question is to look at what Prophet Mohammad would do. During his lifetime, he had Christians and Jews in the mosque (not just in the country or the city) who were there, praying to there religion. Prophet Mohammad saw Jews and Christians as friends, not foes. When times were bad for him, he asked his friends to seek refuge in a country that had a Christian King. This friendship turned into sour relationship with the help of extremists.

I can't see your other questions on this screen. I will reply to them here in a few.

Hope that helps!
 

Pushrod

Patriot
From a short history of the ACLU:
Several crucial leaders of the ACLU were members of the Communist Party. Earl Browder, then General Secretary of the Communist Party, said the ACLU functioned as "a transmission belt" for the party.

Yeah, like I would trust anyone associated with that group.

And why hasn't Abdul 1 or 2 answered specifically the questions posed by Pete or 2ndAmendment? Truth hurts?

You know, in the US, 60 million peaceful gun owners committed no crimes with their guns over this past weekend, but if a criminal commits a henious crime with a gun all the leading gun rights groups would step up to the plate and comdemn the crime. And if a gun owner who is carrying comes across a criminal in the act of hurting another citizen, 99% of them would put their lives on the line to stop that criminals actions.

I don't see the same thing happening in the Muslim world in regard to terrorism!!
 

Sharon

* * * * * * * * *
Staff member
PREMO Member
AliSamana said:
Muslims pray when they wake up, before they go to the bathroom, when they get out of the bathroom, when they put on their clothes, before they eat breakfast, after they eat breakfast, and that is not including the obligatory morning prayer, and I am not even finished with my morning routing :) Talk about countless...

What "exactly" are they praying for?
 

AliSamana

New Member
vraiblonde said:
No - he was clear and correct:

Two to three million Muslim terrorists is nothing to sneeze at. But in light of their 1.8 billion (with a b) global population, terrorists are really a small percentage of the whole.

Which begs the question of why Muslims can't control their violent brethren minority, and the answer is "because they don't want to". There's a reason why so many Mulsim terrorist acts happen in other countries, but they're very rare in the US. Paris has this huge uprising with all these "disaffected" Muslims rioting. Palestinians blow up Israeli nightclubs and grocery stores filled with civilians rather routinely. They blow up embassies as they please.

Yet we don't have that here, why? Because our government won't stand for it. The only reason it happens in Israel so frequently is because Muslims live right there and have fairly easy access.

If you think the Saudis, Turks and Pakistanis don't turn a blind eye to, if not actually encourage, terrorism, think again. Why do you suppose the US had to go all the way over to Afghanistan to fight Al Qaeda? Why wouldn't the neighbors have taken charge of this?

Answer: because they don't want to. They hate Israel and the US just as much as any suicide bomber.

Can you imagine if Canada had a rogue faction that was blowing up civilians on a regular basis, then running into our country for safe haven? Do you think the US would ignore the situation and Australia or Japan would have to send troops to contain the problem? And, PS, in the unlikely event that that happened, do you think the US would deny them use of our airspace to make the trip?

I realize this rant is more appropriate to Politics than Religion, but the topic is here, and Islam is just as much about politics as it is religion these days.


Statistically speaking 2.8 Billion people make less than 2 Dollars a day. Its kind of hard to worry about other things when you don't have food on the table don't ya think. It is easy for us to sit here and criticize. Lets go to those third world countries look at the situation and then evaluate. I am sure we will have a better idea than anyway.

In reality there have been many attacks on the US, though not on US Soil. Lets start with the 83 Marine Corp bombing, then 93 World Trade Center attach, how about the various embassy bombings, USS COle and 9/11, and that is just off the top of my head. SO, lets not turn this complex world into black and white just because it helps your side of the arguement :)
 

AliSamana

New Member
2ndAmendment said:
I asked some real questions. They were never answered. Let me try again.

The second question that I promised you I would answer, well AbdulHaqq had already answered it for you...

AbdulHaqq said: "Secondly, with regards to Israel, most Muslims all over the world have no problem with accepting Israel as a state. In fact, the Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas is calling exactly for this. He happens to be a Muslim. Its another group, HAMAS, which is calling for the extermination of Israel. Israel's neighbors have also recognized it. Lets not forget Jordan, Egypt, and Turkey, all of whom happen to be Muslim countries."
 

AliSamana

New Member
Pushrod said:
From a short history of the ACLU:


Yeah, like I would trust anyone associated with that group.

And why hasn't Abdul 1 or 2 answered specifically the questions posed by Pete or 2ndAmendment? Truth hurts?

You know, in the US, 60 million peaceful gun owners committed no crimes with their guns over this past weekend, but if a criminal commits a henious crime with a gun all the leading gun rights groups would step up to the plate and comdemn the crime. And if a gun owner who is carrying comes across a criminal in the act of hurting another citizen, 99% of them would put their lives on the line to stop that criminals actions.

I don't see the same thing happening in the Muslim world in regard to terrorism!!

All the rational questions that were posted were rationally answred. Sometimes, many times. BTW, are you Pete and 2ndAMDs acting cheer leader? Just wondering....
 

Pete

Repete
AliSamana said:
All the rational questions that were posted were rationally answred. Sometimes, many times. BTW, are you Pete and 2ndAMDs acting cheer leader? Just wondering....
:rolleyes: There you go again. Don't like the question belittle the questioner. Your credibility is growing Mr. High Horse.
 
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