What is it about the gays?..

[Hank]

And I have no idea what you’re going on about. I am not offended by what gays do, or anyone else for that matter. As a biblical matter (which is the standard Christians are supposed to follow) you can read my previous post where Jesus was questioned for this exact same thing; serving up to sinners. These bakers showed how willing they are to judge rather than love, and how unwilling they are to serve. And I don’t mean serving a cake. Perhaps those are the HYPOCRITICAL SELF RIGHTEOUS CHRISTIANS we need to be talking about; those that claim to be full of God’s love, then spitting in someone’s face for being sinners.

And for a true measure of what this means, even when Jesus was being crucified – one of the most torturous ways to die – he still forgave them “FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO”.

Nah, you're just phony. Is being phony, a sin? You might be going to Hell.

 

[Zguy28]

The Westboro Baptists and others self-identify as Christians. Whether or not you, or anyone else, would say 'they are not acting like Christians, therefore they are not true Christians', is irrelevant. This is the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy.

Indeed it is a fallacy. However, that's why I added a "perhaps" to it. But, also, just because somebody uses a fallacious argument, that also doesn't necessarily make it untrue. Lots of people self-identify as things all the time when they are not those things.

 

[Larry Gude]

And that's why WBC fails. As soon as I see a sign that starts with "God Hates" I stop reading. They have nothing to offer me. I do not believe that God hates anyone. God loves every one of us unconditionally. It doesn't matter what we do, God's love is there for us. It is our choice wether we want to accept it or not.

That's why the vitriol from some in the name of God is offensive to me. Hate is a human failing, and ascribing it to God is just wrong.

See, WBC, if nothing else, they are, in fact, very devout. They deserve some sort of credit for being the most serious and literal about their faith.

 

[ProximaCentauri]

And that has what to do with the color of one's skin?

Whether or not you are discriminating based on skin color or sexual orientation doesn't really matter does it? In the final analysis, you are choosing to treat that person differently simply because they are different than you. You are breaking the 'golden rule'. Of course, it's not only Christians that break the golden rule, but some Christians seem to be doing a bang up job of it lately. These 'Christians' would like the world to revolve around them and their 'beliefs'. Faith-based discrimination of others is a 'righteous act' in their pious thinking. You and others who subscribe to this mindset, are nothing more than bigots, hiding behind a fallacious religious rationalization.

 

[ProximaCentauri]

Indeed it is a fallacy. However, that's why I added a "perhaps" to it. But, also, just because somebody uses a fallacious argument, that also doesn't necessarily make it untrue. Lots of people self-identify as things all the time when they are not those things.

Pretty much every person identifying themselves as Christian, believes they are the 'real McCoy'. They think they have the 'right' interpretation of the faith, just as you do. Certainly, you can say they are not 'True Christians', but they could say the same thing of you; and often do, one need not look any further than the discourse in this forum between the usual suspects. The many 'versions' of the faith and one's own interpretation of their particular 'brand' of Christianity, are part and parcel with any religion as you are well aware.

To say that your faith is genuine, while others are suspect who seem not to be 'acting like Christians', again is irrelevant. You're going to have to get over the fact that as a self-identified Christian, and especially a Baptist, you get lumped into the same barrel with that will have rotten apples such as the Westboro types, but hey, that's religion.

 

[Zguy28]

Pretty much every person identifying themselves as Christian, believes they are the 'real McCoy'. They think they have the 'right' interpretation of the faith, just as you do. Certainly, you can say they are not 'True Christians', but they could say the same thing of you; and often do, one need not look any further than the discourse in this forum between the usual suspects. The many 'versions' of the faith and one's own interpretation of their particular 'brand' of Christianity, are part and parcel with any religion as you are well aware.

To say that your faith is genuine, while others are suspect who seem not to be 'acting like Christians', again is irrelevant. You're going to have to get over the fact that as a self-identified Christian, and especially a Baptist, you get lumped into the same barrel with that will have rotten apples such as the Westboro types, but hey, that's religion.

No, its not religion. Its you.

 

[Zguy28]

See, WBC, if nothing else, they are, in fact, very devout. They deserve some sort of credit for being the most serious and literal about their faith.

You couldn't be more wrong about WBC. They are about money from lawsuits. They provoke people into retaliation and then sue them. Total scam and sham.

 

[PsyOps]

See, WBC, if nothing else, they are, in fact, very devout. They deserve some sort of credit for being the most serious and literal about their faith.

Literal according to what?

 

[Larry Gude]

Literal according to what?

A harsh God.

 

[PsyOps]

A harsh God.

Well it is His creation not ours. It's like you being allowed to chew your kid out, but he's not allowed to chew you out. There is a hierarchy. I don't think you'll find anywhere that God or Jesus commanded us to wish people dead.

 

[baydoll]

So, getting back to the original question... maybe those folks aren't Christians?

Bingo.

 

[baydoll]

I don't know of any "Christian" bakery that has turned down black people these days, but I'm sure it happened in the old days all the time. My point is that if you allow one religious lenience (Christian baker doesn't serve gays) then it's the beginning of a slippery slope. If I make the claim that my religion says I can't serve Muslims, or Arabs, or blacks, or whatever...who can argue? That one Christian guy says he can't serve gays while most Christians do, so why can't another say he can't serve blacks? :shrug:

No the bakery never said it wouldn't serve them because they were gay, they wouldn't make them a special order wedding cake because gay marriage is an abomination to God and they (the bakery) would be disobeying God by making this cake for them. They never not once said gays were not allowed in their store. This isn't about not serving gays AT ALL (coming in to buy cupcakes, regular cakes ect.) because they have had gay customers prior to this, this was about a special order for a gay wedding which the bakery refused to do, that's all. The gay couple could have gone elsewhere instead of blowing this WAY out of proportion and ruining this baker's livelihood.

I'm thinking this whole thing was a set-up by the gay agenda targeting Christian businesses.

 

[baydoll]

As for "And when did any Christian business not serve anyone because they are SINNERS?" -- based on what I'm reading, many of you are saying that homosexuality is a sin (which I argue is equal to numerous other sins we all commit). That seems to be this baker's basis for not serving them, right? So he's selectively not serving specific sinners. I was asking where the bible says not to serve sinners. Or does it only tell you not to serve homosexuals? I'm looking for the religious basis that makes the actions acceptable.

You might have an argument IF the bakery totally refused service to them because they are homosexual. But that was not the case. The bakery simply stated they cannot contribute to the gay marriage celebration as God forbids it. They were more than willing to make them any other type of cake.

In my opinion, the whole thing is ridiculous. If I were to go into a place which obviously didn't want to do business with me I would simply take my business elsewhere. I wouldn't demand they do business with me. I would not scream and cry and say woe is me and throw hissy fits. I would not sue that business. But for some reason, it is not allowed for us to refuse them and there are some (not all, mind you, SOME because the majority of them are NOT this way - I should know, my son is gay) gay people who insist on shoving their lifestyle down our throats. I love them all with the love of Christ. I pray for them because I don't want to see anyone (ESPECIALLY GAYS) spending eternity separated from God. And I treat them with the same respect I treat everyone. But if someone were to ask me my opinion, I would say that it is wrong. That's not me saying that, it is God. And it comes down to who I will obey, either God or man (or myself), I will choose God every single time.

 

[baydoll]

Exactly. But I feel like most people who use religion as their crutch don't "actually know Christ," which is the problem. They selectively choose bible passages to support their argument and ignore the full story, or ignore the rest that refutes or better explains it.

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

[baydoll]

You said 'choice' in regards to sex and that isn't how it works. Unless, of course, you chose your desires and passions?

The point is, Larry, this was not a case of discrimination. They didn't serve these gay people not because they were gay, but because they were asked to make them a special cake and that would have violated their conscience. (see my prior posts.)

When someone is forced by the state to provide a service that is against their beliefs, then the state is imposing restrictions to their beliefs.

If anyone is being discriminated against is this Christian business.

 

[baydoll]

And that's why WBC fails. As soon as I see a sign that starts with "God Hates" I stop reading. They have nothing to offer me. I do not believe that God hates anyone. God loves every one of us unconditionally. It doesn't matter what we do, God's love is there for us. It is our choice wether we want to accept it or not.

That's why the vitriol from some in the name of God is offensive to me. Hate is a human failing, and ascribing it to God is just wrong.

Agreed 100%.

 

[baydoll]

The Westboro Baptists and others self-identify as Christians. Whether or not you, or anyone else, would say 'they are not acting like Christians, therefore they are not true Christians', is irrelevant. This is the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy.

Then you, sir, are judging.

 

[baydoll]

Exactly. I'm sure the bakery owner thinks himself more Christian than, say, Baydoll or myself.

Judging much, Radiant?

 

[baydoll]

See, WBC, if nothing else, they are, in fact, very devout. They deserve some sort of credit for being the most serious and literal about their faith.

Seriously and literally WRONG, is more like it.

 

[baydoll]

Whether or not you are discriminating based on skin color or sexual orientation doesn't really matter does it? In the final analysis, you are choosing to treat that person differently simply because they are different than you. You are breaking the 'golden rule'. Of course, it's not only Christians that break the golden rule, but some Christians seem to be doing a bang up job of it lately. These 'Christians' would like the world to revolve around them and their 'beliefs'. Faith-based discrimination of others is a 'righteous act' in their pious thinking. You and others who subscribe to this mindset, are nothing more than bigots, hiding behind a fallacious religious rationalization.

Wow, judge much, PC?

AGAIN. As I PREVIOUSLY posted, this was not discrimination. See my prior posts, thanks.