What the Gospel of Judas really says

tommyjones

tommyjones

New Member
This_person said:
Since I showed it in Christianity, Islam, Buddism, and Judaic traditions, I would agree with you. My point was that it is a religious concept that atheists have adopted, not the other way around.So, you are making my point - your interpretation of the concept is selfishness.So, if I had to kill people to make sure that I got to work on time (say, by running over a pedestrian in my way, etc.), keeping my status as breadwinner in my family and thus ensuring my survival and my family's, that's okay?
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did JPC take over you keyboard or something? cuz that is one of the most retarded things i have read on here.


and you obviously have a hard time with 'do unto others'. its a simple concept that has no return, you are just doing what you would like to have done to you. there is no selfishness as there is no garuntee that others will treat you with the same.

and religion adopted it from nonreligion, not the other way around. absence of religion predated religion.
 
tommyjones

tommyjones

New Member
~mellabella~ said:
The Muslims believe the Qur'an was written by divine guidance from Allah, revealed to Muhammad by Gabriel over a period of 23 years. This 'Allah' is not the same God that the Christians believe in. Many think it is, but I don't. If you read and compare the two books, you will see the differences and discrepencies between the two.
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but they both say they were insipred by god.

so how do you determine which is correct?
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
tommyjones said:
did JPC take over you keyboard or something? cuz that is one of the most retarded things i have read on here.
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I agree, it's a stupid concept. That was my point. But, you said killing (whether it's human or buffalo) for survival is okay, so I was making your point for you, not mine.
and you obviously have a hard time with 'do unto others'. its a simple concept that has no return, you are just doing what you would like to have done to you. there is no selfishness as there is no garuntee that others will treat you with the same.
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Except, by your concept of it, the reason for doing it is selfish. By my concept of it, the reason for doing it is to glorify the creator, for the well-being of mankind. No selfishness at all.
and religion adopted it from nonreligion, not the other way around. absence of religion predated religion.
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And, did the concept predate religion? You're making a huge leap of faith in something you have no way to prove, don't you think?
 
~mellabella~

~mellabella~

New Member
tommyjones said:
but they both say they were insipred by god.

so how do you determine which is correct?
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Mohammad was illerate, and supposedly memorized these teachings and had other people write them down.
Illiteracy:
Who Wrote the Holy Quran
Others writing it down:
"The Qur'anic verses were originally memorized by Muhammad's companions as Muhammad recited them, with some being written down by one or more companions on whatever was at hand, from stones to pieces of bark."
Qur'an - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Maybe its a faith thing. As I have said before, I won't judge other peoples beliefs or tell them they can't believe in it. But based on how I was raised, I believe in God, not Allah.
 
tommyjones

tommyjones

New Member
This_person said:
I agree, it's a stupid concept. That was my point. But, you said killing (whether it's human or buffalo) for survival is okay, so I was making your point for you, not mine.Except, by your concept of it, the reason for doing it is selfish. By my concept of it, the reason for doing it is to glorify the creator, for the well-being of mankind. No selfishness at all.And, did the concept predate religion? You're making a huge leap of faith in something you have no way to prove, don't you think?
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You keep putting words in my mouth and making all sorts of outlandish claims that i am not making.


there is no selfishness if you are not getting or expecting to get anything in return, its pretty much the definition or an alturistic act.

doing something so you can go to heaven is indeed a selfish act as you are expecting a return on your investment.
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
tommyjones said:
You keep putting words in my mouth and making all sorts of outlandish claims that i am not making.
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I dont' think so:
tommyjones said:
do onto others would preclude one from killing another human as you would not want to be killed.

killing for survival is ok
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Me not wanting to be killed is not the reason I would not kill. "Killing" for survival is not okay to me. These are major differences. Killing for not wanting to be killed is selfish.
doing something so you can go to heaven is indeed a selfish act as you are expecting a return on your investment.
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A religious person doesn't do something "so we can go to heaven". We do it because it's right. Going to heaven (if we do) is a plus, not a reason.
 
F

fredcaudle

New Member
tommyjones said:
i just have faith in differnt things than you do.
as for religion, i agree it is man made, as are the bible and the quran
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Your faith then by your own reasoning is man made... either your faith is based on you (man) or your faith is based on what other men have said... so, if the Bible or any other considered sacred work is therefore not sacred or special - then by your own confession nothing else is either.

So, even what you have faith in to you has to be meaningless to all others, because it only rests in you. Take that to a global level and now all is meaningless under the sun because what "man" writes is useless to your definition.
 
Xaquin44

Xaquin44

New Member
This_person said:
What is the moral guidebook for an atheist?
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there isn't one.

that's why we're so awesome. We do just fine and even manage to do good deeds without the threat of hell or the carrot of heaven.

note: I'm not saying there aren't awesome christians etc.
 
F

fredcaudle

New Member
tommyjones said:
but they both say they were insipred by god.

so how do you determine which is correct?
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witnesses to what those who "said" God "said"... Muhammed heard from Allah, okay... who else heard the same message?

Moses claimed speaking to God, prophets claimed speaking to God, and so on... and they all heard the same of God concerning His character, Deity, and way. THe Bible was not written by one "man" as the Koran. Between Old and New there are over 4,000 years between the completed record... over 40 plus "authors" as you say... they heard the same message of God's character, Deity, and way. That is the major difference.

Doesn't matter whether it is believed, the record speaks quite remarkably. So, where are the witnesses for say "good" in order to be "good" enough.
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
Xaquin44 said:
there isn't one.

that's why we're so awesome. We do just fine and even manage to do good deeds without the threat of hell or the carrot of heaven.

note: I'm not saying there aren't awesome christians etc.
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There are certainly awesome Christians, crappy Christians, awesome (in deeds) atheists, and crappy atheists.

As I said above, it's not the carrot nor the stick that (I believe) motivates a religious person. It's really not a hard concept to understand for a selfless person.

Now, I know you're not an atheist, so saying "we" doesn't really fit you.

But, I've still yet to hear where the foundation of an atheist's morals comes from. I've heard that we communicate better, and we're smarter, and the golden rule - none of which are a foundation for morals. Where does the basic concept of "right" and "wrong" come from to guide morals for a non-religious person?
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
Xaquin44 said:
well hey!

us too =)
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Again, I know you're not an atheist, so.....

But, again, you don't do it because you know it to be "right", from what I've read here. You do it because it's a learned trait from your surroundings. 83% of which (in the USA) are Christians and their values. I don't know how much more are other religions, but if we guestimate that there are as many as 10% atheists, that makes it 90% religious people. It's my point of view that the atheists, having no moral guidance outside of selfishness and species preservation, glom onto other people's religions (as that's what they're most exposed to), and then claim it as a separate concept.
 
Xaquin44

Xaquin44

New Member
This_person said:
Again, I know you're not an atheist, so.....

But, again, you don't do it because you know it to be "right", from what I've read here. You do it because it's a learned trait from your surroundings. 83% of which (in the USA) are Christians and their values. I don't know how much more are other religions, but if we guestimate that there are as many as 10% atheists, that makes it 90% religious people. It's my point of view that the atheists, having no moral guidance outside of selfishness and species preservation, glom onto other people's religions (as that's what they're most exposed to), and then claim it as a separate concept.
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meh

I was in youth group for most of my life (well until I turned 19 lol) we did hundred of activities etc. etc.

We almost never talked about god or religion or anything.

/shrug.

I've read all the bible (even the boring parts with annoying family histories) and the Quran (the boring parts of that one too). Nothing in either book made me think anything I didn't already think .... aside from 'there are an awful lot of contridictions in these things'.
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
Xaquin44 said:
meh

I was in youth group for most of my life (well until I turned 19 lol) we did hundred of activities etc. etc.

We almost never talked about god or religion or anything.

/shrug.

I've read all the bible (even the boring parts with annoying family histories) and the Quran (the boring parts of that one too). Nothing in either book made me think anything I didn't already think .... aside from 'there are an awful lot of contridictions in these things'.
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Osmosis
 
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