Why do women seek men to earn more than they do?

pixiegirl

Cleopatra Jones
Originally posted by vraiblonde
Men that step up to the plate and do right by their wife and kids are not considered cool.


Maybe my hormones are leveling off and I'm returning to normal cause I'm agreeing with you an awful lot today.

B's one of those really mushy drunks. He was pretty lit up one night and we were sitting on the couch and he says to me "You don't get mad at me when I joke around in front of people do you?" I tell him that I don't get mad because I know he's joking and if I thought for a second he was being serious I'd kick his ass. He says "Good, I like to act tough in front of my friends but I know you really wear the pants." For some unknown reason it's cool for guys to be crappy to their women. :rolleyes:
 

mixallagist

Be careful what u wish 4
Originally posted by SamSpade
What are you talking about? You know, the number one reason I feared getting married, for YEARS, was the fear that my wife would just get bored with me one day, take my children away, and garnish my wages for the next twenty years, and turn my kids away from me. Because that's what I saw dozens of times with my roommates for 15-20 years. I saw guys with engineering jobs having to pony up a third of their income to pay to support children that the court said they had a right to see, but the mother refused to allow. I saw fathers fight for custody for children where the mother was a continual drunk or druggie, and frequently left the kids starving or alone. I saw bullsh*t type stuff where child support payments would go way up because mom decided that if she couldn't send the kids to private school, the dad who wasn't allowed to see the kids could be compelled to pay for it.

Unh-uh. I didn't want NONE of that. I saw guys living in studios and efficencies because after their wages were garnished, that's all they could afford. Yuck. No way.

It works both ways. Some women can be just as bad as some men.
 

mixallagist

Be careful what u wish 4
Most of the men that I've met want a women who will do whatever they say. They look down on women. Are there any real men left out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (who aren't already taken)
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by mixallagist
It works both ways. Some women can be just as bad as some men.

It DOES? In my whole life, I've never seen a woman having to pay child support, for kids they don't get to see. I've never seen a woman struggling, living with roommates, because her wages are garnished. I've seen courts award custody to women who have no business raising children, for no good reason other than, they are the mother.

If the premise is, men get off scot-free, my argument is, hell, they usually just get screwed, and often - unjustly.
 

mixallagist

Be careful what u wish 4
Originally posted by SamSpade
It DOES? In my whole life, I've never seen a woman having to pay child support, for kids they don't get to see. I've never seen a woman struggling, living with roommates, because her wages are garnished. I've seen courts award custody to women who have no business raising children, for no good reason other than, they are the mother.

If the premise is, men get off scot-free, my argument is, hell, they usually just get screwed, and often - unjustly.

I was just saying that there are just as many bad women out there as there are bad men.
 

T.Rally

New Member
Who said it?

This kind of detracts from the original topic but it fits with some of the things that have been said most recently.

I thought the guy was right on target;

"Right now the failure of our families is hurting America deeply. When families fall, society falls. The anarchy and lack of structure in our inner cities are testament to how quickly civilization falls apart when the family foundation cracks. Children need love and discipline. A welfare check is not a husband. The state is not a father. It is from parents that children come to understand values and themselves as men and women, mothers and fathers.

And for those concerned about children growing up in poverty, we should know this: marriage is probably the best anti-poverty program of them all. Among families headed by married couples today, there is a poverty rate of 5.7 percent. But 33.4 percent of families are headed by a single mother are in poverty today.

Nature abhors a vacuum. Where there are no mature, responsible men around to teach boys how to become good men, gangs serve in their place. In fact, gangs have become a surrogate family for much of a generation of inner-city boys. I recently visited with some former gang members in Albuquerque, New Mexico. In a private meeting they told me why they had joined gangs. These teenage boys said that gangs gave them a sense of security. They made them feel wanted, and useful. They got support from their friends. And, they said, "It was like having a family." "Like family" - unfortunately, that says it all.

The system perpetuates itself as these young men father children whom they have no intention of caring for, by women whose welfare checks support them. Teenage girls, mired in the same hopelessness, lack sufficient motive to say no to this trap.

Answers to our problems won't be easy. We can start by dismantling a welfare system that encourages dependency and subsidizes broken families. We can attach conditions - such as school attendance, or work - to welfare. We can limit the time a recipient gets benefits. We can stop penalizing marriage for welfare mothers. We can enforce child support payment.

Ultimately, however, marriage is a moral issue that requires cultural consensus, and the use of social sanctions. Bearing babies irresponsibly is, simply, wrong. Failure to support children one has fathered is wrong. We must be unequivocal about this.

It doesn't help matters when prime time TV has Murphy Brown - a character who supposedly epitomizes today's intelligent, highly paid, professional woman - mocking the importance of a father, by bearing a child alone, and calling it just another "lifestyle choice."

I know it is not fashionable to talk about moral values, but we need to do it. Even though our cultural leaders in Hollywood, network TV, the national newspapers routinely jeer at them, I think that most of us in this room know that some things are good, and other things are wrong. Now it's time to make the discussion public.

It's time to talk again about family, hard work, integrity and personal responsibility. We cannot be embarrassed out of out belief that two parents, married to each other, are better in most cases for children than one. That honest work is better than hand-outs - or crime. That we are our brother's keepers. That it's worth making an effort, even when rewards aren't immediate.

So I think the time has come to renew our public commitment to our Judeo-Christian values - in our churches and synagogues, our civic organizations and our schools. We are, as our children recite each morning, "one nation under God." That's a useful framework for acknowledging a duty and an authority higher than our own pleasures and personal ambitions."
 

Sharon

* * * * * * * * *
Staff member
PREMO Member
Originally posted by SamSpade
In my whole life, I've never seen a woman having to pay child support, for kids they don't get to see.

I have. The woman also had to have a babysitter present when she was allowed to have visitation with her children. It's probably not the norm, but I've known a few cases where the father has gotten custody.

I've also seen mothers walk out on their husbands and children (just like men). It goes both ways.
 
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pixiegirl

Cleopatra Jones
Originally posted by SamSpade
It DOES? In my whole life, I've never seen a woman having to pay child support, for kids they don't get to see. I've never seen a woman struggling, living with roommates, because her wages are garnished. I've seen courts award custody to women who have no business raising children, for no good reason other than, they are the mother.

If the premise is, men get off scot-free, my argument is, hell, they usually just get screwed, and often - unjustly.

My brother's baby momma (and the idiot had 2 more kids with her) lost custody of her first kid to the kid's father and she had to pay him support. It came out of her paycheck via wage lein which is the same thing as garnishment.

My fiances father was awarded custody of both he and his older sister. Mom was ordered to pay support and struggled to do so because she had been a stay at home mom and couldn't make the money needed to pay the support.

For the most part it's very hard to get screwed over on the amount of support you have to pay. I was awarded less the $400 a month in child support. Not that I ever got it but do you think it only costs $800 a month to raise an infant. Hell, daycare for an infant alone is upwards of $600 a month, then factor in clothing, formula (go to the store and see how much that costs) and diapers (price those out while you're there as well).

You may want to be jaded but the fact of the matter is you don't have any personal experience and are only going off of heresay.
 

Roy

New Member
Re: Who said it?

Originally posted by T.Rally
This kind of detracts from the original topic but it fits with some of the things that have been said most recently.

I thought the guy was right on target;

"Right now the failure of our families is hurting America deeply. When families fall, society falls. The anarchy and lack of structure in our inner cities are testament to how quickly civilization falls apart when the family foundation cracks. Children need love and discipline. A welfare check is not a husband. The state is not a father. It is from parents that children come to understand values and themselves as men and women, mothers and fathers.

And for those concerned about children growing up in poverty, we should know this: marriage is probably the best anti-poverty program of them all. Among families headed by married couples today, there is a poverty rate of 5.7 percent. But 33.4 percent of families are headed by a single mother are in poverty today.

Nature abhors a vacuum. Where there are no mature, responsible men around to teach boys how to become good men, gangs serve in their place. In fact, gangs have become a surrogate family for much of a generation of inner-city boys. I recently visited with some former gang members in Albuquerque, New Mexico. In a private meeting they told me why they had joined gangs. These teenage boys said that gangs gave them a sense of security. They made them feel wanted, and useful. They got support from their friends. And, they said, "It was like having a family." "Like family" - unfortunately, that says it all.

The system perpetuates itself as these young men father children whom they have no intention of caring for, by women whose welfare checks support them. Teenage girls, mired in the same hopelessness, lack sufficient motive to say no to this trap.

Answers to our problems won't be easy. We can start by dismantling a welfare system that encourages dependency and subsidizes broken families. We can attach conditions - such as school attendance, or work - to welfare. We can limit the time a recipient gets benefits. We can stop penalizing marriage for welfare mothers. We can enforce child support payment.

Ultimately, however, marriage is a moral issue that requires cultural consensus, and the use of social sanctions. Bearing babies irresponsibly is, simply, wrong. Failure to support children one has fathered is wrong. We must be unequivocal about this.

It doesn't help matters when prime time TV has Murphy Brown - a character who supposedly epitomizes today's intelligent, highly paid, professional woman - mocking the importance of a father, by bearing a child alone, and calling it just another "lifestyle choice."

I know it is not fashionable to talk about moral values, but we need to do it. Even though our cultural leaders in Hollywood, network TV, the national newspapers routinely jeer at them, I think that most of us in this room know that some things are good, and other things are wrong. Now it's time to make the discussion public.

It's time to talk again about family, hard work, integrity and personal responsibility. We cannot be embarrassed out of out belief that two parents, married to each other, are better in most cases for children than one. That honest work is better than hand-outs - or crime. That we are our brother's keepers. That it's worth making an effort, even when rewards aren't immediate.

So I think the time has come to renew our public commitment to our Judeo-Christian values - in our churches and synagogues, our civic organizations and our schools. We are, as our children recite each morning, "one nation under God." That's a useful framework for acknowledging a duty and an authority higher than our own pleasures and personal ambitions."

Sounds like Dan Quayle.
 

mixallagist

Be careful what u wish 4
My brother is trying to get custody of his two little girls. The mother is in party mode and she lives in a house with at least 10 other people. she just uses the child support money to party. Every time he see's the kids they are filthy.
 

nickt1862

New Member
Originally posted by SamSpade
What are you talking about? You know, the number one reason I feared getting married, for YEARS, was the fear that my wife would just get bored with me one day, take my children away, and garnish my wages for the next twenty years, and turn my kids away from me. Because that's what I saw dozens of times with my roommates for 15-20 years. I saw guys with engineering jobs having to pony up a third of their income to pay to support children that the court said they had a right to see, but the mother refused to allow. I saw fathers fight for custody for children where the mother was a continual drunk or druggie, and frequently left the kids starving or alone. I saw bullsh*t type stuff where child support payments would go way up because mom decided that if she couldn't send the kids to private school, the dad who wasn't allowed to see the kids could be compelled to pay for it.

Unh-uh. I didn't want NONE of that. I saw guys living in studios and efficencies because after their wages were garnished, that's all they could afford. Yuck. No way.


You, me, and alot of us fellow men feel the same way and agree with you.:high5:

Especially with the laws way in the womans favor in the courts.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by pixiegirl

You may want to be jaded but the fact of the matter is you don't have any personal experience and are only going off of heresay.

I'm not "jaded" and there's no need to get personal. NO *I* haven't had to pay it. I began my part in this thread saying I didn't want to name people - like my sisters, each of them, my best friend at work, and about 6 roommates over the course of about 12 years. Going to court with them, getting their drunk wife out of jail, having to drive roommates every weekend to the next state, having to stare down drunk boyfriends who don't want the kids dad in the house. Jeez. Hearsay? I *wish*.

I'm making the point that whatever your opinion on the subject is, you can't say the courts aren't biased against fathers on this subject. You wouldn't like it if it was you that had to shell out 400 - 800 bucks a month for a kid you don't get to see. You wouldn't want to have to fight your ex *every* time you wanted to see or talk to your child.

It would be one thing if the father was a part of his family, in addition to child support. He effectively is locked out, except financially, and probably badly enough to make it impossible to start a NEW family.
 

mAlice

professional daydreamer
Originally posted by nickt1862
You, me, and alot of us fellow men feel the same way and agree with you.:high5:

Especially with the laws way in the womans favor in the courts.

Then you should pull your ad from the personals, buy stock in K-Y and rent porn.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
 

mixallagist

Be careful what u wish 4
Originally posted by nickt1862
You, me, and alot of us fellow men feel the same way and agree with you.:high5:

Especially with the laws way in the woman's favor.

I understand why you feel that way but i'm on the other side of the coin. I am a single mother and the law hasn't helped me at all. Thats why i've chosen not to be one of the whiners and help myself. Sure i'm not at home as much as i'd like to be but my kids know that i'm working to give them what they need. And they know that nothing worth having comes easily. They know that hard work pays off in the end and they respect me more than they will ever repsect their father who has done nothing for them.
 

pixiegirl

Cleopatra Jones
Originally posted by SamSpade
I'm not "jaded" and there's no need to get personal. NO *I* haven't had to pay it. I began my part in this thread saying I didn't want to name people - like my sisters, each of them, my best friend at work, and about 6 roommates over the course of about 12 years. Going to court with them, getting their drunk wife out of jail, having to drive roommates every weekend to the next state, having to stare down drunk boyfriends who don't want the kids dad in the house. Jeez. Hearsay? I *wish*.

I'm making the point that whatever your opinion on the subject is, you can't say the courts aren't biased against fathers on this subject. You wouldn't like it if it was you that had to shell out 400 - 800 bucks a month for a kid you don't get to see. You wouldn't want to have to fight your ex *every* time you wanted to see or talk to your child.

It would be one thing if the father was a part of his family, in addition to child support. He effectively is locked out, except financially, and probably badly enough to make it impossible to start a NEW family.

How are the courts in favor of women? I'd love to know how you see this because my ex has never paid child support, has every opportunity to see his kid (the state won't take the right away because child support and visitation are totally seperate issues) and has never seen the inside of a jail cell for his non payment? Seems to me that I'm the one getting screwed. But you know what, it's my own damn fault cause I slept with the bastard. Poor choice on my part and now I have to pay the price. If your friends/relative would have made better choices they too would be in better situations. You can't just point the finger; it comes down to taking responsibility for oneself.

I wasn't getting personal; if you took it that way I appologize. I was just pointing out that you haven't lived it. Some of us have but on the other side.
 
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