Xaquin44
New Member
yet we must fulfill his will or god would be wrong.
He always knows, so weather by hook or by crook we will always be doing his will.
Genesis 22
- Thread starter Dougstermd
- Start date
yet we must fulfill his will or god would be wrong.
He always knows, so weather by hook or by crook we will always be doing his will.
The original question is legitimate and it certainly is worthy of thoughtful consideration by anyone looking into or challenging Christianity. However, now it seems you're just going to say anything to maintain your position. You don't need to be convinced by anything you read on this board, but it doesn't hurt to acknowledge a legitimate point, but still say "I'm not convinced."
Something that is not the will of God is, necessarily, in opposition to the will of God. By our free choice we steer the course of human history, both individually and as a group. God wants every one of us with Him, equally and individually, but out of our own desire to love Him, because other than that, it is not love.
Something that is not the will of God is, necessarily, in opposition to the will of God. By our free choice we steer the course of human history, both individually and as a group. God wants every one of us with Him, equally and individually, but out of our own desire to love Him, because other than that, it is not love.
Starman3000m
New Member
No, Xaquin, not all people "Fulfill God's Will."
Why? Because, as we have shown you in scripture, God is willing that no one should perish.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9)
God has placed life and death before us and suggested that we choose life.
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (Deuteronomy 30:19)
If God were to have His Will fulfilled, He would have ordained that no one would reject Him and that everyone in the world would accept His Plan of Salvation through the Atoning Blood of His Son, as the ultimate sacrifice for your sins and mine.
The fact that God has an enemy in Satan is the root cause of why people choose to disbelieve God and reject the Free Offer of Salvation that God offers continually. Satan's deception is the very reason that one-third of the angels used their free-will to believe Satan and follow him instead of God.
The question to you is this: Do you really want your son and you and your family to go to heaven? If so, just ask God to reveal the Truth of His Plan of Salvation through Christ to you. If you have ever said anything against God, He will still forgive you and accept you into His fold. God is always willing to forgive but the choice is up to you whether you want to humble yourself before God and seek His forgiveness.
It is still possible right now for you to go to God and ask for forgiveness about anything in your life - or do you want to continue believing that God has already predestined the souls of all people to go to either heaven or hell whether they like it or not?
Where do you want your soul to end up?
Xaquin44
New Member
I'm not saying anything, I'm merely stating fact.
This isn't a difficult concept in the slightest.
Starman3000m
New Member
OK -Here are the only two concepts we are discussing here:
God has already predestined Xaquin to his eternal fate; it's going to be either heaven or hell as God so wills - (according to predestination belief where mankind has No Free-Will) Xaquin has no say in the matter.
Or:
God extends his love for Xaquin, Xaquin's son and family and all mankind. God wills that no one should perish to the consequences of the penalty of eternal death due to Adam's disobedience that caused mankind to be separated from God.
Through God's love, He provided a path for Xaquin's salvation through the Atoning Blood of Christ but Satan is battling God for ownership over Xaquin's soul. It is Xaquin who decides who he wants to give his soul to.
Xaquin, I pray that someday the following concept will not be so difficult for you to understand; it's the action of a personal decision whether to believe or not believe:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:16-18)
Starman3000m
New Member
Xaquin, who taught you that God predestined the final eternity of souls?
In other words you really believe that if you sincerely desire for you and your son and family to go to heaven but God willed it that He did not want you there - you won't go to heaven?
Granted, that is an Islamic belief and also the belief of some religious dogmas but there is no basis in the Holy Bible and teachings of Christ to indicate that God has already predestined the eternal outcome of all souls.
On the contrary, Christ taught that mankind is already condemned to the penalty of eternal death but that His purpose is to be the doorway to Salvation for anyone who accepts the Atonement that He paid as the sacrificial Lamb of God.
The Holy Bible points out that every person ultimately makes a personal decision on whether to believe or not to believe in God's Plan of Salvation through Christ. The Bible indicates that it is God's enemy, Satan, who does not want you to make the right decision.
John, Chapter 10, verses:
9: I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10: The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11: I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12: But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13: The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14: I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15: As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16: And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17: Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18: No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Xaquin44
New Member
He knows all, correct?
He can't be wrong, correct?
So if he knows that you will be heading up or down before you're born, you will be headed up or down depending on gods knowledge.
This_person
Well-Known Member
He knows the outcome of every choice you could make. He knows if you will respond, and how that will go. He knows if you won't, and how that will go. He knows if you'll "find" Him, and He knows if you won't, and what the results of that will be. He knows He gave you free will to determine these things, and what will happen if you do, and if you don't do, everything. There's not just His knowledge of what exactly WILL happen, there's His knowledge of everything that could happen from every decision everyone makes every day. And, then, the results of the followup decisions. And so on, and so on.......
Xaquin44
New Member
I don't know why people are having problems understanding this. It's really really simple.
T
toppick08
Guest
God knows He gave us all free will........
This_person
Well-Known Member
Let's say you're driving down the road, and come to a cross roads. God knows you'll turn left. God knows you'll turn right. God knows you'll go straight. These are the choices you have, and He knows everything about everything that will happen regardless of your choice. But, it's your choice. YOUR will determines left, right, or straight. And, the next cross road.........
It's really very simple.
Xaquin44
New Member
I already know the answer.
This_person
Well-Known Member
He knows the choice I have, and every potential outcome of the choice I make, regardless of which choice it is. That Makes Him omnipotent, and provides me free will.
This_person
Well-Known Member
Yes, regardless of which one it is.
Well, it is perfectly logical, too, that God can be omniscient and still allow us free-will. We've even given you practical examples, limited by our humanity, of knowing what a creature will do without taking away free will (children or dogs). You are sticking to your opinion, and that is fine.
I've been mulling this subject over for the few days it's been on this board, as I'm sure some others have. So, if I come up with anything different to chime in with, I'll be jump in again.
Until then...
I've been mulling this subject over for the few days it's been on this board, as I'm sure some others have. So, if I come up with anything different to chime in with, I'll be jump in again.
Until then...
Xaquin44
New Member
Well, it is perfectly logical, too, that God can be omniscient and still allow us free-will. We've even given you practical examples, limited by our humanity, of knowing what a creature will do without taking away free will (children or dogs). You are sticking to your opinion, and that is fine.
I've been mulling this subject over for the few days it's been on this board, as I'm sure some others have. So, if I come up with anything different to chime in with, I'll be jump in again.
Until then...
1: it isn't logical, because it is impossible.
2: you have given examples easily proven wrong, not practical ones.