This_person
Well-Known Member
So, if I knew your argument would be that, does that make me omnipotent and remove your free will?
Genesis 22
- Thread starter Dougstermd
- Start date
This_person
Well-Known Member
I think you're mistaking omnipotent
omnipotent
c.1314, from O.Fr. omnipotent (11c.), from L. omnipotentem (nom. omnipotens) "all-powerful, almighty," from omnis "all" (see omni-) + potens (gen. potentis) "powerful" (see potent). Strictly only of God or a deity; general sense of "having absolute power or authority" is attested from 1598.
with all knowing.c.1314, from O.Fr. omnipotent (11c.), from L. omnipotentem (nom. omnipotens) "all-powerful, almighty," from omnis "all" (see omni-) + potens (gen. potentis) "powerful" (see potent). Strictly only of God or a deity; general sense of "having absolute power or authority" is attested from 1598.
How about if I try and explain it this way. You're watching the live broadcast of a speech given by your favorite politician, and he/she says "God bless America" at the end of the speech. Now, two hours later, you're watching a rebroadcast of the same speech. You know "God bless America" will be how the speech ends. Does that mean that your favorite politician had no free will to make that statement?
God is the Alpha and the Omega. That means the beginning and the end, and all things in between. He is in the present, the future, and the past. Time is meaningless to Him, as we understand it. It could be viewed as Him watching the speech's rebroadcast, because it's already happened, and yet will happen, and is happening to Him.
You have your free will to do as you please, and he knows whether you will, are, or have gone to the right or left or straight.
This_person
Well-Known Member
But, that's not what I'm saying at all!
I'm saying God knows, and you have free will. That's not mysterious at all.
Why can't He foresee each foregone conclusion that people have the free will to make themselves?
Or, if He sees the foregone conclusion, but had not control over your choice, wouldn't that be free will with omnipotence?
Of course, your answer will be that if He saw it, you didn't have a choice, or, if you had a choice, then He's not ALL powerful. And round and round we'll chase our tails some more.
Maybe it's just a self-imposed limitation on His power - He chooses to let us decide and act for ourselves, with the full knowledge of what we'll do, right or wrong. He can, but doesn't, becaues (as we all know) God helps those who help themselves.
Okay, so it's not perfect, but I thought you might get the point. God has taught us what to do to "get a perfect score" a.k.a. Heaven. He knows all of the possible outcomes of each mistake, how much each "equation"/choice is worth, in the plan of your salvation. That's the idea I'm shooting for here. Anyway, does it mean that you and your son cheated? Does it mean he didn't take the test with his own knowledge and desire/lack of desire to succeed? No, he worked each equation with the info you gave him and earned his own score.
I'm wracking my brain trying to think of a parallel human experience. Pathetic? I suppose, but it's fun trying.
I'm wracking my brain trying to think of a parallel human experience. Pathetic? I suppose, but it's fun trying.
Xaquin44
New Member
well .... except what I'm saying is logical and correct and what you're saying is wishful thinking that has no basis in logic or fact.
T
toppick08
Guest
Xaquin44
New Member
by all means, prove me wrong.
T
toppick08
Guest
prove the Bible wrong.....:shrug:
Xaquin44
New Member
Well thats really not the direct topic at hand ....
I'm more taking a specific belief and trouncing it soundly by proving it impossible.
back to you.
T
toppick08
Guest
Xaquin44
New Member
Starman3000m
New Member
God foreknows the final outcome of what people will have decided on their own regarding the most important decision: Receive or Reject His Plan of Salvation.
God will not change the result of what you choose for yourself. And, yes, He knows what you will ultimately decide.
God did not predestine/pre-ordain your decision.
If God could change the free-will of all mankind no one would be destined to spiritual and eternal death and everyone would accept the Atoning Blood of Christ for the atonement of his/her sins.
God offered His Son in order to provide the Free Gift of Salvation to mankind through the Atoning Blood of Christ - and no other way. (John 14:6)
The offer is made and the choice is yours whether to accept Christ as Lord and Saviour or not. It's really that simple.
Xaquin44
New Member
all these two statements do is prove me right ....
If he knows the final outcome, it means the people didn't get to make their own decision. It has already been recorded.
Starman3000m
New Member
You are the one that determined your eternal destiny. God just has it recorded in the Book of Life that will be opened on Judgment Day.
Those who rejected God's Plan of Salvation will have had their names blotted out of The Book of Life. Not by God's Will but by the will of the individual.