3CATSAILOR
Well-Known Member
LOL!
Hermanville Road And Route 235 Being Examined
- Thread starter royhobie
- Start date
LightRoasted
If I may ...
For your consideration ...
Yup. Sure do. Why do a think the term coined Sudden Adult Death Syndrome (SADS) is heard of all the time now? As well as the sudden deaths of children and young people being reported now? Those covid vaccines are just getting started with the damage they will be, and continue to be, causing over the next several years.
Yup. Sure do. Why do a think the term coined Sudden Adult Death Syndrome (SADS) is heard of all the time now? As well as the sudden deaths of children and young people being reported now? Those covid vaccines are just getting started with the damage they will be, and continue to be, causing over the next several years.
glhs837
Power with Control
All the time? Funny, the only time I hear it is from you. Been around a long time. Got any verifiable data showing an increase since the spread of the vaccines?
OccamsRazor
Well-Known Member
I'll go with someone being impatient and wanting to pass doing 80MPH and losing control OR someone just losing control trying to floor it down the long, straight, "largely uninhabited" road.
Could be...that's where the impatient ones heading north out of PP like to floor it and aggressively pass those of us that insist on remaining below 35 in the PP 30 MPH limit. It's obvious that really pisses some people off.
And by "uninhabited", I meant that traffic is exceedingly light as well as no intersections ; nothing but driveways, and very few of those. Reminds me of the old story about some US city in the very early days of the automobile, where the total number of cars was two and yet they still managed to crash in to each other.
Sneakers
Just sneakin' around....
I've noticed that. I do the speed limit down there. Surprised my rear bumper is still intact.
OccamsRazor
Well-Known Member
Bottom line is that most likely, the majority of these crashes are due to aggressive driving or cell phone use. No amount of extra signals or roadway improvements will correct this. The same people who drive this way are NOT going to change their ways all of the sudden.
I know its not a popular opinion however, I think there should be RLCs at every intersection. Maybe racking up 1000's of dollars in fines and license suspension will get people's attention.
glhs837
Power with Control
We'll see when I get some data, but the vast majority of the crashes in that intersection are not people running red lights. Its one vehicle turning across another cars path when both the turn and the straight have green.
As for RLCs, here in MD, they only cost $75 and carry no points. Thats by law.
OccamsRazor
Well-Known Member
If that is the case then that is a malfunction in the signal system and needs to be fixed immediately. Having a left turn green indication while the opposing thru lane has a green at the same time, I am surprised there are not multiple accidents every day!
As for the RLCs, sounds like a good reason to change the laws if it is causing so much destruction. Increase the fines to make it hurt!
Clem72
Well-Known Member
I do used to go down to get a pizza st. james occasionally and I have been to the mexican restaurant a time or two, but yeah I don't get down that far too often.Me thinks you have not spent much time south of the base in quite a while...
I do remember when I first moved here into the shiny and new spyglass apartments (which should tell you when that was) that a guy in a lifted 80s ford truck threw a crushed beer can out his window onto my car as he passed, I assume because I had the audacity to drive the speed limit before turning left at that intersection.
CPUSA
Well-Known Member
Sorry...I had much better things to do...I see you didn't...
Where were we?... Oh yeah!! you were projecting your aggressive road rage onto others!!...
Aaaaannnndddddd....I see you STILL are....
glhs837
Power with Control
Got a call from the SHA asking for a few clarification points on my request. Seems emails are harder to get, those need a request up to another agency that controls all MD.gov emails for the state.
Going south, for a left turn there is an arrow that only offers green and yellow. And a sign that says "left turn yield on green". So, for about 30-45 seconds after the east has red, only that green left arrow is lit, allowing SB traffic to turn onto the road to Gate 3. Then it goes yellow and then both north and south have green.
Going north, there is no arrow, just two green lights. Now, were I betting man I would bet more than 50% of the crashes in that intersection involve a left turn onto Hermanville.
glhs837
Power with Control
I've been living down here near the college and using Gate 3 pretty steady for work and going shopping for almost 12 years now. Lots of rednecks, true, but lots of folks who want land and such. St James is pretty loaded with non-rednecks, for instance. The small houses and trailers you see from the road sort of disguise all the small side roads loaded with non-rednecks.
LightRoasted
If I may ...
For your consideration ...
Simple observation. If big pharma won't say their concoction causes myocarditis and pericarditis and blood clots, what makes you think for an instant they would be jumping over backwards to tell us, and providing all the evidentiary stats, that their untested vaccines is the cause of all the sudden and unexpected deaths occurring of late? And don't look to the MSM, that takes in billion of dollars of pharma ad revenue, for the truth.
Simple observation and correlation gives plenty of anecdotal evidence. And just because it's anecdotal, and not reported on the MSM outlets, does not mean it's not true.
Here's one.
Simple observation. If big pharma won't say their concoction causes myocarditis and pericarditis and blood clots, what makes you think for an instant they would be jumping over backwards to tell us, and providing all the evidentiary stats, that their untested vaccines is the cause of all the sudden and unexpected deaths occurring of late? And don't look to the MSM, that takes in billion of dollars of pharma ad revenue, for the truth.
Simple observation and correlation gives plenty of anecdotal evidence. And just because it's anecdotal, and not reported on the MSM outlets, does not mean it's not true.
Here's one.
OccamsRazor
Well-Known Member
I am tracking with you....
So, for the SB traffic wanting to turn left, it looks like there is a control signal in place to follow. Good. Also, at that point, there is plenty of clear vision to see the 235 SB traffic and traffic coming from Gate 3 to make a safe decision to turn left towards Gate 3.
For the NB 235 people wanting to turn left onto Hermanville, it does not have a green arrow which means those people need to wait for traffic to clear before turning. Yes, it stinks having to wait during heavy traffic times but it is still a controlled intersection. Perhaps the addition on a left turn arrow would help however, I would be willing to bet that you will still see people turning on a red arrow or red light runners causing accidents as most of these issues are derived from driver error/driver aggressiveness.
TPD
the poor dad
I believe the other issue is no turn lanes from the side roads (Hermanville/Forest Park). If I am making a left or right turn from Hermanville onto 235, I do not really know what the people on Forest Park are doing since it is only one lane and no one ever uses a turn signal. Many times, I just want to make a right hand turn from Hermanville (on a green light for me) and have no clue what those from Forest Park are intending. Are they going straight thru the light or are they making a left? In the mean time, since I am blocking traffic (one lane on Hermanville), everyone behind me wanting to make a left or go straight are getting frustrated waiting for me, so then the light turns yellow/red after I make my turn and those behind me try to rush through the intersection. The intersection is just poorly designed - not meant to handle the volume of traffic that it currently has.
So I guess the argument from our elected officials could be this is the reason for the new excise tax on new commercial buildings - businesses bring more traffic and congestion. Well it isn't Blimpies causing this mess at the intersection - its all the additional residential development off of Forest Park Road over the last 20 years that has caused the problems. In fact, I would argue that it wasn't until the lower income housing (Swash Bay) was built that Blimpies actually became profitable. Until then, that corner business always seemed dead. But this is a whole different topic that is causing my blood pressure to rise at the moment - the newly enacted excise tax that has the potential to cost me more than $32,000 in additional building costs.
So I guess the argument from our elected officials could be this is the reason for the new excise tax on new commercial buildings - businesses bring more traffic and congestion. Well it isn't Blimpies causing this mess at the intersection - its all the additional residential development off of Forest Park Road over the last 20 years that has caused the problems. In fact, I would argue that it wasn't until the lower income housing (Swash Bay) was built that Blimpies actually became profitable. Until then, that corner business always seemed dead. But this is a whole different topic that is causing my blood pressure to rise at the moment - the newly enacted excise tax that has the potential to cost me more than $32,000 in additional building costs.
glhs837
Power with Control
You mean Roy Hobie? He didn't claim to be an investigator, but a member of a county board. And he was active from 2010 to 2014. He's not been active since.
glhs837
Power with Control
So I finally got around to looking over the MDOT/SHA response to my PIA request. Bolded are interesting. And no, I haven't sent in my check yet, but I do plan to. But all that's going to get me is studies and design work and future plans.
The Maryland Department of Transportation State Highway Administration (MDOT SHA) is in receipt of
your request (850544) pursuant to the Maryland Public Information Act, General Provisions Article
(GP), § 4-101 et seq., Annotated Code of Maryland. Specifically, you requested:
"I am requesting copies of the following information pertaining to the intersection of Maryland
Route 235 and Maryland Route 712. I am requesting information since 2010 to present. 1.
Studies/design work done. 2. Correspondence internal and external to other agencies related to
crashes and design since when 2010. 3. Information relating to future plans.”
On May 8, 2023, you confirmed number two of your request does not include an email search.
Regarding number two of your request, the MDOT SHA has crash data and summary reports prepared
from and analyzing that crash data that is responsive to your request. These records are collected,
generated, and/or maintained for the purpose of improving highway safety and/or as part of SHA’s
Highway Safety Improvement Program (“HSIP”) as required by 23 U.S.C. § 148. Both 23 U.S.C. § 148
and § 409 provide that all such reports, surveys, or data compiled or collected as part of SHA’s HSIP are
not subject to discovery or admissible in evidence in any action for damages.
Number two of your request is denied because those records are covered by the deliberative process
privilege and are exempt from disclosure under GP § 4-301. In addition, those records qualify as intra-
agency memoranda that is exempt from disclosure under GP § 4-344. In accordance with GP § 4-343,
MDOT SHA finds that the disclosure of these records would not be in the public interest because
disclosure: a) would deter MDOT SHA from seeking important and valuable information relating to
highway safety; b) would discourage candid debate relating to MDOT SHA’s HSIP; and c) could be used
to attempt to discover MDOT SHA' s thought process regarding decisions affecting highway safety. See,
Pierce County, Washington v. Guillen, 507 U.S. 129 (2003) in which the United States Supreme Court
recognized that 23 U.S.C. § 152 [now § 148] and § 409 were proper bases to justify refusal of accident
data in response to request made under the State of Washington’s Public Disclosure Act, the equivalent of
Maryland’s Public Information Act.
Page Two
Raw crash data collected by the Maryland State Police (MSP) that has not been analyzed by MDOT SHA
in connection with its HSIP, is available to the public on the Maryland State Police Open Data Portal’s
website at:
In addition, we have provided a link to the data dictionary for the crash datasets.Open Data | opendata.maryland.gov
opendata.maryland.gov
Dictionary/7xpx-5fte
For investigative records regarding motor vehicle accidents, the Maryland State Police Central Records
Division is the custodian of record and may have the information you seek. For the Maryland State
Police, you may contact Ms. Ida J. Williams, MSP Central Records Division Director, 410-281-2700 or
visit:
px or https://opendata.maryland.gov/
For the remainder of your request, specifically number one and three, GP § 4-206 authorizes MDOT to
charge for time incurred to search, retrieve, review, and prepare records after the first two hours of work.
The estimated cost is $83.93. Please forward a check made payable to the Maryland Department of
Transportation to:
Mr. Zachary Mohler
PIA Representative
MDOT State Highway Administration
707 North Calvert Street
Baltimore MD 21202-3601
Please be advised that we will not begin working on your request until and unless we receive payment. If,
after we have completed the work, the actual cost differs from this estimate, you will either be required to
pay the balance prior to receiving the records or you will be issued a refund. If we do not receive
payment from you by June 3, 2023, we will consider the matter closed. Of course, you may reinitiate a
new request at any time.
Payment does not guarantee the full release of the records you seek. It is possible that records or
information within the records requested may be redacted or exempt from disclosure under State and/or
federal laws and/or regulations.
Pursuant to GP § 4-362, you are entitled to seek judicial review of this decision. Alternatively, you may
file a request for mediation with the Public Access Ombudsman and, if the Ombudsman is unable to
resolve the matter, may subsequently seek a resolution from the Public Information Act Compliance
Board for those matters within the Compliance Board’s jurisdiction. See
GP §§ 4-1A-01 et seq. and 4-1B-01 et seq.
For efficiency reasons and to keep operational costs as low as possible, we encourage all requesters to
submit their PIA requests through the MDOT online form, which can be found at
www.mdot.maryland.gov. Click on the About tab at the top and then Public Information Act. You will
find all PIA Representative contact information and other helpful information.
If you have any questions, you may contact me at 410-545-5691 or zmohler@mdot.maryland.gov. I will
be happy to assist you.
TPD
the poor dad
I don't understand the denial. SHA can't give you crash data because of Supreme Court ruling but the state police can? What am I missing?