Immigration Rallies Draw Thousands Nationwide

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Why not give those illegals already here citizenship, then re-instate a draft with a mandatory service obligation for all (18 to 60) and outsource the problem to Canada with the ensuing exodus that just might drag some of our homegrown USA haters out too? :biggrin:
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Larry Gude said:
...is it wrong to exploit people who are getting PAID?
If they're getting paid, then you're not really exploiting them, are you? Nobody forces them to come over here. In fact, we're trying to keep them OUT unless they go through the proper channels.

If anything, THEY are exploiting US, not the other way around.

But now you're just coming up with stupidity because you know you're wrong. Admit it.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Bruzilla said:
As for your second point, if 2A and you are correct in your belief that "most Americans" support your views, then shouldn't Congress want to revel in the claim of being racist against illegal immigrants? For every imigrant vote they lose they would be getting two or three folks like you right? So I think your claims that Congress is afraid of the racist label is pretty lame.
Actually, I don't think I ever said that "most Americans" support my views. The closest I might have come is citing a Zogby poll to that effect.

And you know damn good and well that Congress is afraid of being called racist. Do you not remember when Trent Lott had to step down as House Majority Leader after he was ripped to shreds? And how the entire Republican party is tarnished by David Duke, even though he never got higher than the Louisiana State House, while the Democrats have an honest to goodness Klan member in the US Senate, and nobody says a word about it?

Stop it, Bru. This sort of silliness does not become you.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Ok...

vraiblonde said:
If they're getting paid, then you're not really exploiting them, are you? Nobody forces them to come over here. In fact, we're trying to keep them OUT unless they go through the proper channels.

If anything, THEY are exploiting US, not the other way around.

But now you're just coming up with stupidity because you know you're wrong. Admit it.


...I'm wrong. They're criminals and should be arrested, tried and punished.

Let's go. Figure the average jailbird costs, what, $40,000 to feed, cage and maintain, per year and we can't try everyone at once so...10 mil peeps by 40 is 400 mil plus 4 zeros's...4 bil, 40 bil, 400 bil, 4 tril...

$4,000,000,000,000 if we can get this taken care of in a relatively short time. Less non prison associated costs, of course and a lawyer for each and every one who can't afford one and, ha, every one of these criminals will be out of a job so...maybe Angelos will give us a group discount? Our entire annual budget is about $3 tril, so, we need to print a few more greenbacks, of course. What else?

You people seem to be entirely incapable of appreciating any of the numbers here.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Larry Gude said:
...I'm wrong. They're criminals and should be arrested, tried and punished.

Let's go. Figure the average jailbird costs, what, $40,000 to feed, cage and maintain, per year and we can't try everyone at once so...10 mil peeps by 40 is 400 mil plus 4 zeros's...4 bil, 40 bil, 400 bil, 4 tril...

$4,000,000,000,000 if we can get this taken care of in a relatively short time. Less non prison associated costs, of course and a lawyer for each and every one who can't afford one and, ha, every one of these criminals will be out of a job so...maybe Angelos will give us a group discount? Our entire annual budget is about $3 tril, so, we need to print a few more greenbacks, of course. What else?

You people seem to be entirely incapable of appreciating any of the numbers here.
Would this require incarceration or a trial? One would think an administrative process would be enough. No proof of being here legally with supporting documents, back to the other side of the fence. Granted it would be a major task and certainly there would be challenges that would require more scrutiny, investigation, and possible trial, but I think the majority would be of a type that would be fairly simple to figure out.

Regardless of this legislation we still need to get a handle on the ease of entry into the nation and the threat that poses to the nation.
 

Pete

Repete
Larry Gude said:
...drywall hangers and tapers and sanders are tradesmen to me, not unskilled labor. Unskilled labor hangs out at the 7-11 looking to earn a few bucks for the day doing anything.

Your dad can't get a guy for less than $15 unless he cheats and gets an illegal, right? So, the margin there is $5 and the illegals get the jobs anyway, you said, so guys can make a profit, right? So, take out the guys who are getting the work, they're gone. Then, the pressure that kept legals down to $15 is GONE.

What percentage of the guys are illegals? 25%? So, there's that much MORE work for the guys already getting $15.

You're looking at $25, EZ.

Quit worrying about my feelings. I was only trying to see if I could make you feel guilty. Next time you blow one into the next fairway I ain't gonna go 'aww...too bad..."

Give no quarter as you shall have none!

Look, this disaster winding it's way through congress will not be cataclysmic but a good number of people are gonna long for the good old days until we all adjust.
$5 an hour is a big deal. I already agreed that labor prices will increase, but it will cause growth in organic industry because you will not be competing with roving bands of labor who do not have the tax burden an organic worker does. Competition is a good thing that will act as a check valve for wages.

Percentage wise nearly 100% of masons, drywallers and framers are Mexican crews in north GA. The rest of the trades have to be licensed and bonded so the Mexican illegals cannot infiltrate those areas. Masonry is trying to become licensed too because of such poor work that is being done. You have nearly an entire industry gone.

What makes it worse is a great deal of the work if bad. The Mexican crews get stiffed on about 20% (POMAS) of their jobs because it sucks, they don't care, they write it off and move on. The people who hire these illegal crews do so because it is so cheap, then kirk out when it takes 30 five gallon buckets of compound to mud up a 2000 sq foot house and pictures wont hang because the walls are bowed and the tape is peeling off the ceiling in 2 months. Framers are just as bad, windows that wont open or close tight, doors that you can't walk past with a candle because the wind will blow it out. It is not because the Mexicans just suck, it is because they don't know what they are doing. Going out and helping drywall a square room does not make anyone a drywaller anymore than pulling a wire through and exposed wall makes them a licensed commercial electrician.

My dad got a job going in to fix a church that went with a general contractor that hired all illegal crews. They have to tear down 2 walls of blocks because the building was not rectangular, it was a freaking trapezoid. No one knew it until the steel workers came to put up a steel portion and it wouldn't fit. Where were the masons? Paid and GONE. The roofers used screw guns with the clutches set too high and drew the screws so tight half broke and they just left them. First big rain is was pouring inside almost as bad as outside. Where were the roofers? Paid and GONE.

So not only are the illegals putting Americans out of business they are ripping them off.

America has become CHEAPER CHEAPER CHEAPER must have it CHEAPER!! Well not everything cheap is good.

There are guys out there organic who will work, they are not going to do it for $10 an hour because we all know that equated to about $6 and hour. They will for $15 to $20. If thats what the market will bear then so be it.

I agree this is a disaster they have been allowing to happen. Like seeing a termite and shrugging it off and now the house if falling in all around. Bi-lingual signs, drivers license exams, not enforcing the border as well as it should be are all appeasements of a problem both parties were afraid to address because they wanted to smooch ass and didn't want to risk losing Hispanic voters. The federal government has been turning a blind eye to it for way too long. If the IRS can tell me within MINUTES of e-filing my taxes that there is a problem because my ex wife already claimed my kid as a dependent they sure as shiat tell that something fishy is going on when John Tompkins is reporting income as a Pharmacist in New Jersey and is a cook at an Applebee's in Jackson Mississippi at the same time.

As far as feeling guilt, you got me but I am over it. You better put a chin strap on the Panama Jack hat this year, you are gonna need it. Aww Larry in the sand again, man that is too bad. :lmao:
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Ken King said:
Would this require incarceration or a trial? One would think an administrative process would be enough.
THANK YOU! :banghead:

The flinging of wild scenarios in this thread is driving me crazy!!!
 

ylexot

Super Genius
Larry Gude said:
...so now the diva knows all about it, not the liscensed commercial electrician of the house and his 10 years in the field... :drama:

Must know my place...
:confused: Are you saying that because a licensed commercial electrician is skilled labor, a drywall hanger is skilled labor too? Or am I reading too much into a Larry/Vrai conversation?
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Hell if I know...

Ken King said:
Would this require incarceration or a trial? One would think an administrative process would be enough. No proof of being here legally with supporting documents, back to the other side of the fence. Granted it would be a major task and certainly there would be challenges that would require more scrutiny, investigation, and possible trial, but I think the majority would be of a type that would be fairly simple to figure out.

Regardless of this legislation we still need to get a handle on the ease of entry into the nation and the threat that poses to the nation.

...I've been told I don't get it, that these people are illegals and that I don't understand that the word illegal and criminal are synonymous, so, I'm willing to look at it that way.

I've been told they that, the illegals, by there very presence, are messing up, ruining, the country; creating an unlevel playing field for jobs, sucking social services dry, plaguing health services.

So, it would seem natural that these folks, in order to fix these problems, need to be off the streets and deported. Right?

The problem exists because nothing has been done about it for a decade and it will take a huge amount of money and people to deal with this new task, administrative or not because, presumably, everyone who already deals with this can't handle it, or they would have.

I mean, if we do some administrative thing, we're looking at getting some paperwork squared away and them staying, thus the problems stay. Right?

I haven't heard anyone say they should all stay and just get some paperwork taken care of because that would be rewarding criminal behavior.

As far as;

Regardless of this legislation we still need to get a handle on the ease of entry into the nation and the threat that poses to the nation

...that goes, we simply need to treat them the same way we have a handle on illegal drugs and, viola, like illegal drugs, no more problem. Right?

So, let's get going. Set up our administrative or whatever system. We need to get some adds in the paper, hire people, open offices, get the chain organized and moving. We need to process 27,000 people a day, excluding new immigrants, to get this done in a year, so, times a wasting.

While we're at it, we need an army on the border. 2,000 miles and whatever resources, that we don't have now, to cover that much ground effectively.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Bruzilla said:
Ummm... correct me if I'm wrong, but you can easily get over perfectly stacked and laid razor wire by laying a few heavy boards on it. And in the absence of boards heavy blankets will do the trick just as well. Seems to me I remember reading that in a small group manuever manual somewhere, but what does the military know. Also, the guys at Normandy needed Bangalore torpedoes because it's very difficult to go up to a razor wire fence and cut your way through when there are several hundred MG-42s raining 8MM bullets at you. :lmao: I swear... some people. Since these folks will be going up to your vaunted razor wire in teh dead of night, and not while under fire, they'll be able to get past your impenetrable wall as easily as the Nazis overcame the Maginot line.
You are duhing again. Common sense is not your strong point is it? Why is it you get paid again? Razor wire for 10 to 15 feet at the foot of a tall fence with at least three rows of razor wire at top. Put a board on that.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Bruzilla said:
The answer is absolutely!!! Any worker in the country, legal or illegal, is eligible to the same rights and to equal protection under the law. If someone makes you work longer hours than allowed, you can take action. If you get underpaid, you can take action. If you want to form a union, you can. But, an illegal worker has to be far more careful about things like filing grievences, or demanding anything from an employer. Sure an illegal worker can file a complaint with the EEOC, but even if they win they'll still end up deported, so they don't complain.

Why do you think it is that illegals are so willing to put up with low pay, long hours, and crappy work? Because they've usually got no choice. They have to work for whoever will hire them, and for whatever the employer will give them. An illegal can't go to Ford, or Giant, or Wal Mart and get hired, so they end up working for some bodyshop fixing Fords, picking produce that's sold at Giant, or working as a contracted cleaner at Wal Mart. If you were given a choice of cleaning toilets at I-95 restrooms for $4 and hour or letting your children starve, you would be cleaning toilets. But if someone said you can clean toilets or you can work in whatever profession you chose, you wouldn't be cleaning many public restrooms would you? But now that still doesn't mean those toilets no longer need to be cleaned, so how do you get someone who doesn't have to do that work to take the job? By giving them a salary that will get them to do it. And based on what they've learned in CA, even doubling the salary doesn't work. So you'ld have to triple or maybe even quadruple it, which is going to drive up your costs.
You still don't understand the word illegal. Illegal, without legal standing. Hello? Pack 'em up and ship them. They have as much legal standing as the prisoners at Gitmo.
 
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2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Bruzilla said:
Negative. I do not think that we should do away with our military or police as they are able to get most of the job done given the resources they consume. I also feel that having well-armed citizens is an excellent and very cost-effective way to close the gap between capabilities and resources in these areas. I also like the idea of the Minutemen as they are a much more effective tool than a beaurocratic mess like the Border Patrol, unfortunately there's a severe lack of consistency. The other problem is that cops (and Border Patrol agents) fall under the consumer-side supply and demand rule, that being anything you need a lot of you're not going to pay a lot for, which means that in order to bring on scores of new agents you're most likely going to pay them a low salary... which opens the door to graft and corruption (re: prison guards.)

As for your second point, if 2A and you are correct in your belief that "most Americans" support your views, then shouldn't Congress want to revel in the claim of being racist against illegal immigrants? For every imigrant vote they lose they would be getting two or three folks like you right? So I think your claims that Congress is afraid of the racist label is pretty lame. I believe that Congress is dragging its feet on this issue for the exact same reason they always have: they know how much damage doing away with illegal immigrant labor will do to our economy, and they are thinking with their brains instead of their hearts on this issue.

As for money for AIDS and warlords in Africa, I'm right there with ya - 100%. F that whole bunch over there. I just saw a special on the NYT satellite channel about a black doctor who volunteered to work in Africa for a year to help with the AIDS crisis, and he just threw up his hands in disgust with the whole continent out there.
There was a petition delivered to Congress that had over a million verified signatures supporting securing our borders and deporting the illegals.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Bruzilla said:
Sorry, but I think I gotta toss the :bs: flag on you on this one. Weren't you the one who was upset because his Little Havana/barely English speaking cleaning woman asked him to learn English? Let me ask you 2A... how come you hired this woman to be your cleaning woman instead of a born-in-the-USA, mom, apple pie, and Chevrolet, By God All-American woman? Could it be because the later whould have been too expensive? Could it be that you couldn't find such a woman who was willing to pick up your messes and wash your personals for anywhere near the kind of money Miss Havana was willing to work for?

Sorry, but I don't see you being willing to pay more for services supplied by the All-American types.
I didn't hire her. She cleans my office. She is here legally; she married a sailor. She is a contractor for the government. She thinks her country is better and she thinks everyone in the U.S. should speak Spanish.

Quit assuming. It makes an ass out of u.
 
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2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Larry Gude said:
...to find out how that relates to immigrants.

If anything that suggests Jesus would throw out the politicians and business owners, those exploiting the situation, laws be damned.

And he's just the guy to be damning things.
Like you really care what the Bible says.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Larry Gude said:
..what a bunch of hooey. If 'Jesus/Your God here' doesn't stand for doing what is right by your fellow man over ANY damn law, we'd still have slavery and what the hell would the point be? Did we screw up and not follow Addolph Hitlers law? How about Osama?

God: "Man, the good work I could get them to do...oh well, gotta follow the law..."

Mexican, crawling across the desert; "Gasp, water!"

Jesus: "Here, my son, drink this wine for it is my blood and, just as soon as you feel better, turn around and go the bleep back where you came from, you illegal ALIEN!"

Yeah, I SO see that...
Hello. Shows your ignorance of the Bible. There was slavery while Jesus was on this earth. The word slave or slaves occurs 74 times in just the gospels. Jesus speaking:
Luke 12:36-38

36"Be like men who are waiting for their master when he returns from the wedding feast, so that they may immediately open the door to him when he comes and knocks.

37"Blessed are those slaves whom the master will find on the alert when he comes; truly I say to you, that he will gird himself to serve, and have them recline at the table, and will come up and wait on them.

38"Whether he comes in the second watch, or even in the third, and finds them so, blessed are those slaves.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Larry Gude said:
...I'm wrong. They're criminals and should be arrested, tried and punished.

Let's go. Figure the average jailbird costs, what, $40,000 to feed, cage and maintain, per year and we can't try everyone at once so...10 mil peeps by 40 is 400 mil plus 4 zeros's...4 bil, 40 bil, 400 bil, 4 tril...

$4,000,000,000,000 if we can get this taken care of in a relatively short time. Less non prison associated costs, of course and a lawyer for each and every one who can't afford one and, ha, every one of these criminals will be out of a job so...maybe Angelos will give us a group discount? Our entire annual budget is about $3 tril, so, we need to print a few more greenbacks, of course. What else?

You people seem to be entirely incapable of appreciating any of the numbers here.
What don't you understand about "deport"?
 
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