Eve was born also directly from the hand of God.
Is Jesus a black man?
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Eve was born also directly from the hand of God.
tommyjones
New Member
agreed.
This_person
Well-Known Member
I will certainly grant that this is pure opinion, but I think that tree was stressed in the story because the outcome was already known to the author. For, at the end of Chapter Two, Moses tells us:
22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life
While this is clearly AFTER the whole situation went down, it's clear God didn't want us to take from the tree of life, either.
This_person
Well-Known Member
But, that's not what it says. How do you explain what it is I'm showing you in scripture (not what you were taught)?
Certainly that's another difference. That doesn't discount that he was created before any other life, and the rest of mankind was after.
tommyjones
New Member
that just one of the many inconsistancies in scriptures as i have been saying.
BTW, that is what it says, you have infered the rest as you have explained.
NOWHERE does the bible say that god created any people other than adam and eve. you have infered it.....
apparently you are in the minority especially among christians in your opinion.
2ndA clearly stated that he believes that adam and eve were the only two people directly created by god.
you have your opinion, its not in line with christianity, but its yours.....
That came later. As long as they were in the garden of Eden, they were allowed to eat freely from the tree of life. It was only after they had eaten from the tree of knowledge that they were not allowed to eat from the tree of life thereby fulfilling the "you shall surely die" part of the command from God. As long as they could freely eat from the tree of life, they would not die.
So eventually, there were two trees they were not allowed to eat from, but they has already eaten from both of them, one freely allowed, the tree of life, and one disallowed, the tree of knowledge. It was only after the sin of eating from the tree of knowledge that the fruit of the tree of life was withheld.
This_person
Well-Known Member
It's only an inconsistency if I'm wrong. If I'm right, your interpretation is inconsistent with the words written.
Not quite, I've given chapter and verse that explains what I'm saying, you've given "it's how I was taught" as an answer.
Except, where I showed, where Adam was created before the third day, and the rest were created on the sixth. Other than that, you're right, it does not specifically call out any other creation. It implies I'm correct by having a spouse for Cain, but, it does not specifically state it. Or, that the sky was blue, but.... well, you see where I'm going with that.
And, that's what makes religion so like science. Each person gets to take the data and understand it their own way! It's kinda great like that.
How do you mean "Christianity"? Do you mean what's taught in churches?
This_person
Well-Known Member
As I fully acknowledged, my interpretation of that was pure opinion. I agree what I quoted was after. And, certainly, God later lowered mankind's life to 120 years as an expected max, so that goes along with what you're saying. I just remembered the two trees were together, and the tree of life was specifically mentioned as guarded after man was removed from the garden.
Thanks for clarifying me!
tommyjones
New Member
dude, you are hanging on one line that is inconsistant with the teachings of christianity. its your wacky interpretation, that is all.
you have one very vague line that doesn't agree (to you) in a story that is quite specific to the who's and when's.
This_person
Well-Known Member
Wacky?
Okay, so lay it out for me.... Based upon those two chapters (or any other verses within the Bible), on what day was Adam created? And, on what day was Eve created?
Calling my interpretation names and using insinuation to discuss other points doesn't cut a real discussion. Show me how Adam could have been born differently than I described. Mind you, you've only told me I'm wrong because that's what you were taught, not because that's what the Scripture says. I'm not asking you to believe in Adam and Eve, I'm asking you to justify denying the words of the book because that's what someone else did, or because you actually have something to deny me on. You're using Cliff Notes, I'm using the book.
You told me I was wrong about evolution until I showed you the Darwin. You tell me I'm wrong about the Bible, show me in the Bible.
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ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
Clearly YES. Genesis 3 v 20: "Adam named his wife Eve because she would become the mother of ALL the living". There were no other people until they started reproducing.
You obviously can't see your own contradiction and yet you say the Bible has them??? Adam & Eve is the "them" spoken of in verse 27. If not, then Genesis 3 v 20 would be wrong. Chapter one is an overview and chapter 2 is a more detailed account (as someone stated in an earlier post).
Only a fool believes wikipedia since anyone can come in and make whatever changes they want. There was NOT any other woman. If you don't want to believe it, fine, but the truth is not changed by your opinion of it. You people ALWAYS take one verse and make it stand alone while totally ignoring other verses that MUST be quoted with it. The verse that Eve is the mother of all living closes the book on any other woman starting the human race.
Your ignorance is screaming out here. STOP! Who are you to say that "at this point Adam & Eve only had two children"? The Bible does not state every child that Adam & Eve had and when they had them. Cain was a grown up at this point, not a child. Adam & Eve had many children and the Bible never says that Cain, Adam & Eve were the only persons on earth at that time.gumbo said:
We can safely assume that Eve had daughters by this time and then God gave her another son in the birth of Seth. After this, Seth had kids too and probably grandkids so that Genesis 4 v 26 can safely say that "MEN began to call on the name of the Lord".
You know guys, it's one thing to have questions about something that you know nothing about but to have this hateful, arrogant opinion of it is really showing your refusal to learn the truth. The answers are given and you refuse to listen, so why do you persist?
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gumbo
FIGHT CLUB !
Ignorance screaming out here?
I can't believe I'm descussing religion with someone that calls himself ItalianScallion.
Your user name screams out desperation for attention from women.
And for some reason I have this image of some fat, hairy,gold chain wearing, bald guy from New York.
But anyhow Mr Stud Muffin.. For your information I do believe in God, Jesus and my Momma.
My Momma thought me not to follow everyone else off of cliffs.
Perhaps you should read the Hebrew texts and the Mesopotamian texts.
The word Genesis comes form Hebrew.
Funny the Hebrew story of Genesis mentions Lilith, but yet the Church decided to use translated Greek texts.
Also in the Mesopotamian texts, Lilith is Adams first wife.
Not to mention the Egyptian texts of creation.
Has it ever occurred to you that the others in Genesis might of been what we know as cave men.
Apparently God sometimes was not happy with his creations.
And just perhaps cave man didn't turn out the way he wanted so he tried again with Adam and Eve.
God made Dinosaurs and they didn't work out. God didn't like man much at first and killed all in a flood to start over. So hows God perfect? Why did he decide to start over?
He didn't get man right the first time with the cave man.
He didn't get man right the second time with Adam and Eve.
Nor did he get man right the third time after killing everyone but Moses family with a flood.
And if you don't see the Old Testament as folklores to keep stone age men in line.
Then your admitting that God threw an awful lot of temper tantrums, in which would make him less than perfect.
The problem with you religious brain washed zombies is that you want to have it all your way to protect your so fragile faith.
I on the other hand have no problem with my faith in God, I fully understand why in those times those types of stories were told.
I also fully understand that greed is the down fall in man and that 90% of all Church's and religions are greed mongers of the worst kind.
Religion has now been made into a billion dollar industry and it all started with them damn greed monger Catholics. The same bunch who put together the Bible from many books.
So go jump off of the cliff with the rest of the sheep.
By God if I'm going to hell it will not be because I'm following no brained sheep like you.
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I am not sure why Italian Onion says that to you its not Stallion. Lets put all that aside though as I would like you to consider a few replies to you comments.
So the Hebrew word for Genesis (Bere####) Means Lilth? I was always told it means In The Beginings?
Book of Genesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ok I live in a black and white world I belive in absolute truth but lets quit what ifing and look at what we know. God has loved his creation since day one, but lets look at what we know about God his attributes.
God is eternal
He is unchangeable
God is just, meaning He is no respecter of persons in the sense of showing favoritism (Deuteronomy 32:4; Psalm 18:30).
He is all-powerful; He can do anything that pleases Him, but His actions will always be in accord with the rest of His character (Revelation 19:6; Jeremiah 32:17,27).
God is omnipresent, meaning He is ever-present, everywhere; this does not mean that God is everything (Psalm 139:7-13; Jeremiah 23:23).
God is omniscient, meaning He knows the past, present, and future, even what we are thinking at any given moment; since He knows everything His justice will always be administered fairly (Psalm 139:1-5; Proverbs 5:21).
God also has forknoweledge so he knew before the creation of the world what was going to happen and had taken that in account.
Man in his sinfullness in Genesis in the Flood account was so corrupt that its speculated by some that Noah's family were the only pure humans left. As there was releations with the daughters of the sons of man.
This wasnt Gods failure it was mans God created his humans and it was them he seeked a relation ship with.
Whoa your mixing Darwinism in here lets stick with the biblical record we have no reason to believe that Adam was anything less than a 30 somthing adult middle easter man. God created angels beautiful creatures to serve him why would he create his prise posion with less in fact the Bible tells us we were created in his image with less powers than angels but more reasoning and thinking skills. Also I think you met Noah above but being upset typed Mosess.
Mans created in the image of God, not in every detail but if you look at his attributes above hes JUST, We are so lucky that God is mercifull and didnt wipe us out once and for all but he wanted a relationship with his beings for eternity. He knows were not perfect in fact he knows were wicked, but has provided a way for us to change for the better so we can be with him for eternity.
I disagree, if I am wrong in my faith I loose nothing and have more to offer man while I am here, But if I am right and I have proof to believe that I am... Do you have those same odds? Or are you taking the ultimate gamble?
So because a few corrupt men take advantage of something good and use it for their own means and agenda, that its all bad.
That sounds like to me because a drunk driver kills someone in a car we need to get rid of all cars?
Man is foul, corrupt, decietfull, and wicked in his heat the Bible tells us that that their are non rightous no not one and that we all believe that were good. It also tells us in our natural state that we are ennemies of God and that we hate both him and his ways so what you feel is quite normal.
What your missing out on though is the personal relationship with the God of the Bible who has a temper but is also mercifull loving and kind. Hes not all love, but hes not all wrath either its just his way or the highway and we have a choice. He wants us to seek him and desire a relationship with him and love him because he is so good.
We dont need to defend the Bible it does a great job on its own look a the geneologies how procise they are coming from an oral culture. Look at how it says something and it comes to pass years latter excatlty the way it was told so exact you couldnt make it occur that way no matter how much you try.
More importantly look at these (us) brain washed zombies, that use to be just like you that hated God or would have been ashame to even talk about him spendind preacious time trying to serve our savior and tell others how great he is and how good he's been to us.
If God was a figment of our imaginations than just like the parchutte anology we would have done it for a while and disgarded him after the illusion wore off and there are false converts that do just that, but because we know him personally we know hes real and we love you enough to try to explain it to you so that you can know him too. Were not getting a commission here for sharing our faith but there is great joy when someone finally gets it or at least starts to consider everything and not just look at the surface!
tommyjones
New Member
Wacky?
Calling my interpretation names and using insinuation to discuss other points doesn't cut a real discussion. Show me how Adam could have been born differently than I described. Mind you, you've only told me I'm wrong because that's what you were taught, not because that's what the Scripture says. I'm not asking you to believe in Adam and Eve, I'm asking you to justify denying the words of the book because that's what someone else did, or because you actually have something to deny me on. You're using Cliff Notes, I'm using the book.
You told me I was wrong about evolution until I showed you the Darwin. You tell me I'm wrong about the Bible, show me in the Bible.
adam and eve were created on separate days, the wacky part of your interpretation is that eve is not the mother of all humans. you have taken something vague and turned it into "and on the sixth day god created a whole other species of man who lived outside the garden and who were never spoken of......."
thats the waky part.
why in your interpretation did god create this other people outside the garden? What had they done to be cast out? why doesnt the rest of the bible talk of them? how would you know a person decendant from the people outside the garden from those directly decended from adam and eve?
This_person
Well-Known Member
Why did God create Adam before that? Why did God create the heavens and the earth? I can't answer that.
To be cast out, they would have had to have been in in the first place. They never were. God created Adam, He and Adam had a great time with God's other creations - naming them, etc - then God created Eve. Eve was created on the same day (by the two chapters words) as mankind - the rest - was created (male and female on day six, not just before day three).
Um, it does.
Who do you think Cain married? Who was Cain afraid of picking on him? Who did Cain build a town for? It seems to me they're talked about.
I'm not sure you would. I don't see any reason to think you would.
When Adam named Eve the mother of all living, was she Adam's mother? Was she her own mother? Was she the mother of plants and birds and fish, literally? No. Clearly, this was not God ordaining Eve "mother of all living", it was a nice thing for Adam to do. There was probably a reason that we'll better understand later, but it's clearly not a literal, God-ordained status.
tommyjones
New Member
Why did God create Adam before that? Why did God create the heavens and the earth? I can't answer that.To be cast out, they would have had to have been in in the first place. They never were. God created Adam, He and Adam had a great time with God's other creations - naming them, etc - then God created Eve. Eve was created on the same day (by the two chapters words) as mankind - the rest - was created (male and female on day six, not just before day three).Um, it does.
When Adam named Eve the mother of all living, was she Adam's mother? Was she her own mother? Was she the mother of plants and birds and fish, literally? No. Clearly, this was not God ordaining Eve "mother of all living", it was a nice thing for Adam to do. There was probably a reason that we'll better understand later, but it's clearly not a literal, God-ordained status.
you are way the eff out there on this one.
it doesn't talk about other people there, he married his sister. he built the town for his family, and he was probably afraid of the vengful god.......
funny that the story specifically says eve is the mother of us all, but you would rather infer others existence.
again i ask, why did they not deserve to be in the garden? did they already have sin? how many were there? why doesn't genisis give the 'begotins' of those? were they no gods choosen people? did god not talk to them? did god not give them free will?
were they created in gods image? was adam?
This_person
Well-Known Member
Do you realize you're saying this to the same person you told was wrong about the theory of evolution, until I showed you what Darwin had to say. And your response? "Well, that's just one theory"
Yeah, Darwin's!!
Except, that's not what it says.
You argue that it can't be other people because the Bible doesn't speak of other people (except, of course, where it does). Then, you say it's his sister. Where is his sister mentioned? By your logic denying my theory, you must have a verse that discusses her existence. Except, of course, there is no verse. He wasn't afraid of a vengeful God. He was afraid of other people (you know, those other people it doesn't talk about, except where it does). What he said to God was:
Moses said:
Except, I'm not inferring others' existence. I'm reading what's written. On day <3, Adam is created. On day 6, mankind is created, male and female. And, the story says that Adam named Eve "Eve" after their being cast out of the Garden. Who else was "the living" that she was to become "mother" of? This was, by any context clue reading I've been given, a title with no real meaning. God didn't declare it, Adam named her. Did you ever call someone Mom who wasn't your birth mother? Ever hear of anyone else doing it? It's a nice title, but doesn't mean that the person is physically the actual mother. She's not my mother.
Again, who said they didn't deserve it? God's choice with his first created - not the place everyone would necessarily be.
Ask God, He'll be the one who can answer that.
All of 'em
What's the need to?
Sure doesn't seem like it
God speaks with all willing to hear
God gave us all free will, so yes, I believe He did.
I'll let Moses answer that
Moses said:
Didn't we do this once?
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tommyjones
New Member
Do you realize you're saying this to the same person you told was wrong about the theory of evolution, until I showed you what Darwin had to say. And your response? "Well, that's just one theory"
You argue that it can't be other people because the Bible doesn't speak of other people (except, of course, where it does). Then, you say it's his sister. Where is his sister mentioned? By your logic denying my theory, you must have a verse that discusses her existence. Except, of course, there is no verse. He wasn't afraid of a vengeful God. He was afraid of other people (you know, those other people it doesn't talk about, except where it does). What he said to God was:So, it seems Cain was worried about people other than Adam and Eve, a whole group of people (so many he only identified his fear as "anyone") where the only other people you say are known at this point are Momma and Daddy.Except, I'm not inferring others' existence. I'm reading what's written. On day <3, Adam is created. On day 6, mankind is created, male and female. And, the story says that Adam named Eve "Eve" after their being cast out of the Garden. Who else was "the living" that she was to become "mother" of? This was, by any context clue reading I've been given, a title with no real meaning. God didn't declare it, Adam named her. Did you ever call someone Mom who wasn't your birth mother? Ever hear of anyone else doing it? It's a nice title, but doesn't mean that the person is physically the actual mother. She's not my mother.Again, who said they didn't deserve it? God's choice with his first created - not the place everyone would necessarily be.Ask God, He'll be the one who can answer that.All of 'emWhat's the need to?Sure doesn't seem like itGod speaks with all willing to hearGod gave us all free will, so yes, I believe He did.I'll let Moses answer thatDidn't we do this once?
you have it pretty twisted, but its your fairy tale. i'm just saying what you say doesn't jive with your story. then you put up a bunch of bs that says 'well it doesnt say so i will infer"
as to the made in gods image question. the passage you quote is refering to adam. not to the 'man kind' you say was created on the 6th day........
where does it say that those men and women were created in gods image?
oh, and the people cain was worried about killing him were his brothers sisters neices and nephews.
This_person
Well-Known Member
Actually, I've put up what it says, and the reason I'm inferring. If you can show me the verse in the Bible that conflicts with my understanding, I'd be glad to read it with an open mind. But, 2A says so, and you were taught something different in Sunday school is not a reason to not actually read what's written. I respect your opinion, and I respect 2A's opinion, but I also respect my reading ability.
Can you demonstrate why you believe that to be true? The passage was taken from Genesis 1, where the day by day story of creation is being given. It shows mankind being created on Day 6. Genesis 2 specifically shows Adam being created well before that (like, before the third day). So, who's inferring here?
The Genesis passage I quoted
Again, can you show me where you're getting that from? You're making AT LEAST as much assumption as I am, and you're doing it without ANY passage to back you up. I have at least some Bible words, you have, what?
tommyjones
New Member
Actually, I've put up what it says, and the reason I'm inferring. If you can show me the verse in the Bible that conflicts with my understanding, I'd be glad to read it with an open mind. But, 2A says so, and you were taught something different in Sunday school is not a reason to not actually read what's written. I respect your opinion, and I respect 2A's opinion, but I also respect my reading ability.Can you demonstrate why you believe that to be true? The passage was taken from Genesis 1, where the day by day story of creation is being given. It shows mankind being created on Day 6. Genesis 2 specifically shows Adam being created well before that (like, before the third day). So, who's inferring here?
i am only assuming the charecters in the story are there. yes that is true.
the passage you are refering to only describes adam's creation. where does it say that these men who were created on the sixth day were made in gods image? I dont think it does.....
and the pasages have been given, by 2nda and italian, and even you, but your "Assumptions" have blinded you.
kind of like your understadning of evolution. you try to slam it into your way of understadning.
again, i dont care, its your fairy tale. but you are taking more liberties with it than Joseph Smith or the witnesses ever do.....