Marijuana should be legal...

[Leopold Stoch]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Agree with Spoiled

Originally posted by BuddyLee
I also seem to remember watergate.

Do you remember the Moon landing and the Bay of Pigs, too?

 

[Ken King]

Just to clarify my comments, I don’t use drugs because they are illegal and the position I hold is one where the employer subjects employees to screening and random testing. But I would like to continue the debate as to the worthiness of keeping marijuana illegal.

Originally posted by vraiblonde
That's annoying. The government isn't trying to legislate morality - they're trying to legislate a public health and safety issue, which is well within their realm.

What is the public health and safety issue? Just by saying one exists doesn't make it so. Besides studies I have recently read state that there aren’t any health issues (especially when compared to the effects of tobacco and alcohol). But both alcohol and tobacco are legal even though there are known/proven concerns with health and safety. As to safety I think the only problem with marijuana use would be the possibility of getting stampeded in the cookie aisle at the local grocery store.

As with the prohibition of alcohol this is totally about morality and controlling others that seek to pursue their happiness in a manner different then what some consider acceptable.

Originally posted by willie
That's horsecrap. You could use the same argument for regular nicotine if you want to make that big of a stretch. Marijuana is this first step toward hard drugs. There are way too many kids today that bend to peer pressure and believe your line of reasoning and they end up with a lifetime of trouble. Why are so many kids unable to face life head on and need these crutches?

Based on what you have said it seems that it is peer-pressure that is the first step to harder drugs. You know, being cool and fitting in or how about the kid that gets other kids to try it so that he can sell it to them to support his habit. I would be willing to bet that there are many that use the harder drugs that have never used marijuana. How can this be if they haven’t experimented with the “killer-weed”?

I also wonder how many of these same kids watch Mom or Pop take pill after pill or drink that cocktail or two upon arriving home to unwind and deal with their daily stress?

You do ask a reasonable question and it seems that we are a culture that requires assistance to cope whether it is smoking a joint, taking a drink, smoking a cigarette, or being prescribed the legal helpers created by pharmaceutical companies that doctors are so ready to prescribe.

Originally posted by BuddyLee
I drink and I have never used drugs. The same goes for the other millions out there that drink.

Let’s see, a person consuming alcohol that hasn’t obtained the lawful age (AKA illegal activity). Isn’t it reasonable to “assume” that a person willing to partake in one illegal activity would engage in another? You say, “No”. If that is true then how can you even begin to insinuate that using marijuana will “cause” that person to use harder drugs?

I think that our governments (both Fed and State) are spending too much in a losing battle of morality. I think that they should concentrate on the more heinous criminals and crimes, and leave those that are just trying to relax alone. If a person commits a crime or causes harm to another while under the influence of any substance (legal or illegal) then they should pay for those acts. If they aren’t hurting anyone (other then themselves) I think they should be left alone.

 

[willie]

quote:
Let’s see, a person consuming alcohol that hasn’t obtained the lawful age (AKA illegal activity). Isn’t it reasonable to “assume” that a person willing to partake in one illegal activity would engage in another? You say, “No”. If that is true then how can you even begin to insinuate that using marijuana will “cause” that person to use harder drugs?
I think the "illegal activity" comparison is a little like apples and cucumbers or whatever. That theory would eventually have us all robbing banks. For many years I'm sure I kept Miller Brewing Co. running extra shifts but I never had any desire to try any drug. I cannot play expert on how drugs make you feel but, unfortunately, I have too many close friends and relatives that are affected by hard drugs. A couple are non drinkers and most are sociable drinkers but I can't think of any of them that had not used weed since their teen years. It tells me that there is a relationship. It is also interesting how some people can be "recreational" users and get away with it and then their blood brother is hooked hard and loses everything they own and lives on the street.

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by willie
I think the "illegal activity" comparison is a little like apples and cucumbers or whatever. That theory would eventually have us all robbing banks. For many years I'm sure I kept Miller Brewing Co. running extra shifts but I never had any desire to try any drug. I cannot play expert on how drugs make you feel but, unfortunately, I have too many close friends and relatives that are affected by hard drugs. A couple are non drinkers and most are sociable drinkers but I can't think of any of them that had not used weed since their teen years. It tells me that there is a relationship. It is also interesting how some people can be "recreational" users and get away with it and then their blood brother is hooked hard and loses everything they own and lives on the street.

“Comparing apples and cucumbers”, exactly as it shows no relationship (besides I was just busting BuddyLee’s chops for being intolerant while admittedly being in violation of community standards himself). I know many people too that have issues with hard drugs (some use illegal ones and others use legally prescribed ones) that don’t smoke a thing, never have. That is what I am getting at, that because a person might try marijuana or use it regularly does not necessarily mean that they will move on to other forms of intoxication. More so, those that use various forms of legal intoxicants are no more likely to use illicit forms as anyone else. Then there are those that seem inclined to attempt as many forms of intoxication that any of us could imagine. Which for me indicates that those that start with marijuana and move on to a hard-drug are simply inclined to do so and probably would have ended up there even without ever trying marijuana.

Now the question concerning marijuana should be if it is no more harmful then alcohol why is it being treated as harsh by the judicial system and public policy in general? What is the stigma and why isn't it based on factual information versus many of the fear tactics and false assumptions that are being used?

I've been reading information from the Shaffer Library of Drug Policy associated with the Virginia Law Review and am finding it very interesting (even if some might find it outdated). http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/LIBRARY/studies/vlr/vlrtoc.htm

 

[BuddyLee]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Agree with Spoiled

Originally posted by Leopold Stoch
Do you remember the Moon landing and the Bay of Pigs, too?

I remember just as it were yesterday.

 

[BuddyLee]

Originally posted by Ken King
Let’s see, a person consuming alcohol that hasn’t obtained the lawful age (AKA illegal activity). Isn’t it reasonable to “assume” that a person willing to partake in one illegal activity would engage in another? You say, “No”. If that is true then how can you even begin to insinuate that using marijuana will “cause” that person to use harder drugs?

I think that our governments (both Fed and State) are spending too much in a losing battle of morality. I think that they should concentrate on the more heinous criminals and crimes, and leave those that are just trying to relax alone. If a person commits a crime or causes harm to another while under the influence of any substance (legal or illegal) then they should pay for those acts. If they aren’t hurting anyone (other then themselves) I think they should be left alone.

Mr. King, I don't see a problem with the government legalizing the drug to make a few bucks. I do have a problem with ordinary citizens using the drug and being more idiotic than they were prior. Do you want more people operating heavy machinery while being stoned? Do you want your family members being hit by a stoner on the highway? Do you want the stoners of today to be the leaders of tomorrow?

 

[Spoiled]

Originally posted by BuddyLee
stoners of today to be the leaders of tomorrow?

Umm clinton did it, bush did it (and if i recall he allegidly did coke too)... Reagan was a movie star im sure he did it... Its already happened, happening and will continue to happen...

Doing Mary Jane doesnt cause long-termed mental/memory effects as i stated in a previous post...

 

[BuddyLee]

Originally posted by Spoiled
Umm clinton did it, bush did it (and if i recall he allegidly did coke too)... Reagan was a movie star im sure he did it... Its already happened, happening and will continue to happen...

Clinton and Bush.'s

If these presidents inspire you you were probably inspried by your high school principal.

Doing Mary Jane doesnt cause long-termed mental/memory effects as i stated in a previous post...

And we know this how? Has there been sufficient long term testing on many different types of people where all variables are accounted for?

 

[Spoiled]

Originally posted by BuddyLee
Clinton and Bush.'s

If these presidents inspire you you were probably inspried by your high school principal.

First off, im not inspired by either, i never said i was or led anyone to believe i was... And if i was inspired by my principle he is in my opinion a better inspiration than the people i see on TV as well as our leaders...

Originally posted by BuddyLee

And we know this how? Has there been sufficient long term testing on many different types of people where all variables are accounted for?

Again look at my previous posts in this thread i did post a link to a study report or something... you decide if it was suffient enough for you and you find one that counters it then you can make claims... until then....your point it moot

 

[BuddyLee]

Originally posted by Spoiled

Again look at my previous posts in this thread i did post a link to a study report or something... you decide if it was suffient enough for you and you find one that counters it then you can make claims... until then....your point it moot

You see you can prove anything if you use the correct words, twist the truth, or not include all possible variables.

One of the key conclusions of the research is that people who start smoking cannabis as adolescents are at the greatest risk of later developing mental health problems. Another team calculates that eliminating cannabis use in the UK population could reduce cases of schizophrenia by 13 per cent.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993098

 

[Spoiled]

Originally posted by BuddyLee
You see you can prove anything if you use the correct words, twist the truth, or not include all possible variables.



http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993098

Thats all fine and dandy, but that is smoking in adolescense/young age (sub 17)... If the people where 18 or 21 (legal age for tobacco/alcohol) it probably would not have been a problem... 1 in 3 people have or have had depression in some form (http://mo.essortment.com/howdoyoutreat_rfgz.htm), which i would imagine makes linking marijuana use to it difficult...

 

[BuddyLee]

http://www.well.com/user/woa/fspot.htm

Studies of marijuana's mental effects show that the drug can impair or reduce short-term memory, alter sense of time, and reduce ability to do things which require concentration, swift reactions, and coordination, such as driving a car or operating machinery.

Long-term regular users of marijuana may become psychologically dependent. They may have a hard time limiting their use, they may need more of the drug to get the same effect, and they may develop problems with their jobs and personal relationships. The drug can become the most important aspect of their lives.

One major concern about marijuana is its possible effects on young people as they grow up. Research shows that the earlier people start using drugs, the more likely they are to go on to experiment with other drugs. In addition, when young people start using marijuana regularly, they often lose interest and are not motivated to do their schoolwork. The effects of marijuana can interfere with learning by impairing thinking, reading comprehension, and verbal and mathematical skills. Research shows that students do not remember what they have learned when they are "high".

Some research studies suggest that the use of marijuana during pregnancy may result in premature babies and in low birth weights. Studies of men and women may have a temporary loss of fertility. These findings suggest that marijuana may be especially harmful during adolescence, a period of rapid physical and sexual development.

Marijuana use increases the heart rate as much as 50 percent, depending on the amount of THC. It can cause chest pain in people who have a poor blood supply to the heart - and it produces these effects more rapidly than tobacco smoke does

Scientists believe that marijuana can be especially harmful to the lungs because users often inhale the unfiltered smoke deeply and hold it in their lungs as long as possible. Therefore, the smoke is in contact with lung tissues for long periods of time, which irritates the lungs and damages the way they work. Marijuana smoke contains some of the same ingredients in tobacco smoke that can cause emphysema and cancer. In addition, many marijuana users also smoke cigarettes; the combined effects of smoking these two substances creates an increased health risk.

Marijuana smoke has been found to contain more cancer-causing agents than is found in tobacco smoke. Examination of human lung tissue that had been exposed to marijuana smoke over a long period of time in a laboratory showed cellular changes called metaplasia that are considered precancerous. In laboratory test, the tars from marijuana smoke have produced tumors when applied to animal skin. These studies suggest that it is likely that marijuana may cause cancer if used for a number of years.

 

[Spoiled]

Almost all of those can be compared to alcohol, tobacco or both... But im off to bed

 

[BuddyLee]

Originally posted by Spoiled
Thats all fine and dandy, but that is smoking in adolescense/young age (sub 17)... If the people where 18 or 21 (legal age for tobacco/alcohol) it probably would not have been a problem... 1 in 3 people have or have had depression in some form (http://mo.essortment.com/howdoyoutreat_rfgz.htm), which i would imagine makes linking marijuana use to it difficult...

Just because it is of legal age does not mean it will have different effects.

46.1% of Seniors have used Mary Jane in 2003. That is clearly more than 1 in 3 persons. Maybe not all depression resides in this drug but it certainly doesn't help stop it.

Depression(19), anxiety(20), and personality disturbances(21) have been associated with marijuana use. Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person’s existing problems worse. Because marijuana compromises the ability to learn and remember information, the more a person uses marijuana the more he or she is likely to fall behind in accumulating intellectual, job, or social skills. Moreover, research has shown that marijuana’s adverse impact on memory and learning can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off(22, 23).

http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofax/marijuana.html

 

[BuddyLee]

Originally posted by Spoiled
Almost all of those can be compared to alcohol, tobacco or both... But im off to bed

But those aren't illegal.

 

[Ken King]

Originally posted by BuddyLee
Mr. King, I don't see a problem with the government legalizing the drug to make a few bucks. I do have a problem with ordinary citizens using the drug and being more idiotic than they were prior. Do you want more people operating heavy machinery while being stoned? Do you want your family members being hit by a stoner on the highway? Do you want the stoners of today to be the leaders of tomorrow?

Well BuddyLee, if you would put down your beer and read I have already said that I believe that the similar restriction as to what are in place for alcohol would be reasonable, so no I don't want it used by people operating vehicles, while walking down the street, or while sitting at the curb in front of Vraiblonde's house. BTW this would include making it illegal for young asses like yourself to use it like you already are doing with alcohol.

 

[tlatchaw]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Agree with Spoiled

Originally posted by SmallTown
some benefit

Your parents thought so!














Oh, just kidding. It was such a choice opening. sorry, sorry, sorry

 

[BuddyLee]

Originally posted by Ken King
Well BuddyLee, if you would put down your beer and read I have already said that I believe that the similar restriction as to what are in place for alcohol would be reasonable, so no I don't want it used by people operating vehicles, while walking down the street, or while sitting at the curb in front of Vraiblonde's house. BTW this would include making it illegal for young asses like yourself to use it like you already are doing with alcohol.

Well that's the whole point now isn't it. If it's illegal it will be all the more worth while. Most people know for a fact that kids will get whatever they want if it's illegal or not. So why make this legal? Why have one more thing to suck our health down the drain? Why throw another substance into the mix such as alcohol or cigs?

 

[Toxick]

Originally posted by BuddyLee
Well that's the whole point now isn't it. If it's illegal it will be all the more worth while. Most people know for a fact that kids will get whatever they want if it's illegal or not.

Which is why all teenagers - all of them - are machine-gun toting, foul-mouthed alcoholics.

Originally posted by BuddyLee
So why make this legal? Why have one more thing to suck our health down the drain? Why throw another substance into the mix such as alcohol or cigs?

You are trying to take away my right to choose what to do with my body.

So what if it's unhealthy? We sell Drano, and that does horrible things to the human body.

Sulfuric acid, bleach, hot wax, cars, coffee, ammonia, jalapeno peppers, salt, coca-cola, Crisco, gasoline, ammonia+bleach, the sun, Armor All, knives, plastic bags, chrome polish, glass bottles- all unhealthy.


How about this: Let's see if we can get congress to pass legislation that all American homes are to be constructed with an indestructable carapace on the outside, and completely covered on the inside with goose-down padding, and everyone inside is required to be dressed in bubble-wrap and a helmet - as the air purifiers spit out purified O2, and the television shows educational happy-happy programming 24-7 telling us how friggin wonderful it is that we're all safe.

Let's do that!


Until an asteroid strikes. Then we'll have to outlaw those too.


I mean, they are dangerous after all.

 

[Sharon]

jalapeno peppers

Unhealthy, how so?