Southern County Youth Football & Cheerleading

[vindog]

If it is a messy situation growing worse, why then do you not want to get involved in the league and help be part of the solution - why do we need to form a new league? Or for that matter to spend our time ripping the current one? I have read this forum's threads and others - what I see is a lot of folks eager to take potshots at the league's leadership without really knowing what is going on behind the scene. For example, all of the folks so eager to say that Don Kemp is an ass, and on the take don't know that he has PERSONALLY donated $100,000 to Pigskin over the last few years to keep it afloat. Regardless of their interpersonal skills, ya gotta respect that.
Years of complaints? I have put in two requests to the county's public information office to supply me with all the formal complaints against pigskin from 2001 - 2005. Guess how many I have received? You got it - zero. They either are "overwhelmed" by all the complaints and it would take them years to put together, or people for all the #####ing have been too busy to file formal complaints.
Finally, I think over the past few days, I have laid out my case and challenged the new leagues leadership to provide answers in a civilized and convincing way. I have not resorted to name calling, and at every turn I have tried to provide facts as well as the logic behind my line of questioning. To date, I think the responses have been "amusing and amazing". An offer to speak off line, in a private forum with the league officials, and having someone question why I am asking questions in a forum dedicated to finding solutions to a messy situation.
How about responding to my questions? How am I causing problems by bringing facts and asking for a response?

 

[vindog]

Ok - Football helmet recertification by Riddell - Great for Revolution helmets, but even the revolution helmets are not certified in the first place unless properly fitted. Besides Riddell, you have Bike helmets, Air, etc. As for Riddell's signature certification, Pigskin has been doing that for years. Besides, name me someone else in the county that holds a patent on helmet technology that the NFL still uses and consults with regularly, than Don Kemp. Given the choice between someone from either the county, or your organization and Don to fit my son's helmet, I have to choose experience.
Besides - you make my point when it comes to money - you claim that you won't HAVE to spend as much money towards depreciation of equipment, because everything will be recertified. Great! Will you drop your registration prices in year two and beyond now that your expenses will be lower? If not, where will the money go?
And, just to make the SAME point once again - if the county decides to go Commie on us and shut down an organization that has been around for quite some time (which I think the ACLU will have a problem with) what value added to they bring? They will be commissioner of the sport, provide referees, and fields. This will cost the taxpayers an additional $55,000 per year at least for the commissioner, maybe an additional $5,000 for the refs, and the same field maintenance that they provide now. Oh - maybe an additional $1000, because the fields will be painted, right? Residents of the county will then be assigned to clubs in their region, following your model I suppose, which will cost double what pigskin now charges, because they are SOOOO horrible to require their players to sell five pizzas.
So, a budget increase of about $60,000 per year (at LEAST) lower standards across the county because each club will be in charge of it's own equipment, etc. rather than having one league administration, and radically altering all the rules and organization in the space of five months, OR holding parks and rec's feet to the fire, forcing them to do their job and work with the existing league (to the minor expense of having them attend the meetings in which they hold a voting position)......as a tax payer, sounds like a no brainer to me.
By the way, I did attend the public meeting of the County Commissioners, where the Parks and Rec presentation was weak to say the least - when even the most invasive and big government of the commissioners can ask the board of parks and rec whether or not they have even held a meeting with pigskin's board to hear their side of the incident and to see them flounder like a fish out of water, it speaks volumes to what is going on.....the Parks and Rec folks came up with an idea, took action without any research or meetings with both parties, and slapped together a poor proposal.
And I am sorry to say that anytime government steps in, tells an operating organization / business / or even individual within the community that they have decided to take over something in the name of safety, community relations, or because they have a "better idea", and that the citizens will no longer be allowed to participate in the way they wish, that is not democracy - that is Fascism, Communism, Socialism, and is diametrically opposed to the freedoms on which this country was built.

 

[mainman]

I am interested in putting my child in football this year but damn if I can make heads or tails out of anything posted in this cluster#### of a thread....

 

[Msd_plumbing]

Your supporters for the new football league keep saying at each meeting that there should be two football leagues, so everyone can have a choose. But from what I heard at all of these meetings is there will be one football organization if the county does get approved to be involved. So there goes your choose. Have you failed to tell them that? Because they keep saying it at every meeting.

If all of the other County football organizations are so wonderful, then how come every year just on my team we get 5 or more from other Counties?

I want to make it known why Calvert County said they would not play you if Parks and Rec was not involved. It is not because of Pigskin Football it is because of the OSPREYS.

At your meeting the ones from Pigskin Football that showed up, were not there to support you, but to make sure that the county does not take over football. What is going to happen 2-5 yrs from now if this falls apart? Are our kids going to be stuck not playing football? How can you try to take a league out that has been successfull for 25 + yrs?

 

[vindog]

I am interested in putting my child in football this year but damn if I can make heads or tails out of anything posted in this cluster#### of a thread....

I know what you mean Mainman. According to those that started this idea, this has been going since August. That means that all the while we were working to make pigskin better, there were those amongst us collecting information, and building "alliances" - like the Survivor show - to spring this on us once the season ended. My main frustration with this has always been that it is underhanded - if you want to start a new league, do it. Begin a year out, advertise, and put the word out. Co-opting the county to help you out however is disingenuous.
I would just ask that you have some faith, and research both options. If you check out www.stmaryspigskinfootball.com, you will see that the board is considering joining Pop Warner football - a national organization where the winning teams could even go to national championships in Orlando. I like the private sector solution, instead of the heavy handed county administrated option myself!

 

[Christy]

I am interested in putting my child in football this year but damn if I can make heads or tails out of anything posted in this cluster#### of a thread....

MM, my son thoroughly enjoyed playing in the pigskin league. we never had any issues, but we were also very lucky with who our coaches were every year. The parents for our team(s) were alright as well. We were one of the Northern Teams. Most of the problems I ever encountered at games were from the Southern Teams. :shrug:

 

[Christy]

I know what you mean Mainman. According to those that started this idea, this has been going since August. That means that all the while we were working to make pigskin better, there were those amongst us collecting information, and building "alliances" - like the Survivor show - to spring this on us once the season ended. My main frustration with this has always been that it is underhanded - if you want to start a new league, do it. Begin a year out, advertise, and put the word out. Co-opting the county to help you out however is disingenuous.
I would just ask that you have some faith, and research both options. If you check out www.stmaryspigskinfootball.com, you will see that the board is considering joining Pop Warner football - a national organization where the winning teams could even go to national championships in Orlando. I like the private sector solution, instead of the heavy handed county administrated option myself!

I don't see why creating a new league is such a huge deal. It's all about options really. :shrug:

 

[slotted]

MM, my son thoroughly enjoyed playing in the pigskin league. we never had any issues, but we were also very lucky with who our coaches were every year. The parents for our team(s) were alright as well. We were one of the Northern Teams. Most of the problems I ever encountered at games were from the Southern Teams. :shrug:

Never had a problem with any of my three years with a southern team. :shrug:

 

[vindog]

I agree Christy - options are great. As in true options - pigskin, or Southern County. But when ST MARY'S COUNTY steps in and tells pigskin that they will not be allowed to play on county leagues anymore, and that they have to disband into the "county approved clubs" organization, that is not a choice.
The head of Parks and Recreation ACTUALLY SAID that the county could support starting up this club option, but it would need $225,000 at the worst to buy equipment. Why did he say the worst case would be $225K? BECAUSE HE ACTUALLY WAS HOPING THAT PIGSKIN WOULD DONATE ALL OF ITS EQUIPMENT TO THE COUNTY AFTER BEING SHUTDOWN!!!!!
If the county option is SOOOO wonderful, how in the heck could we get a County administrator thinking (????) that an organization recently told it couldn't exist to donate equipment.
This is the fallacy of Southern County. AT BEST if they don't get county support, they will only be able to play other Southern County clubs - imagine playing the same team over and over and over...... They claim that they will be able to play against calvert and charles county - this will only happen unless St Mary's County Commissioners sanction Southern County's organization as the "official" football league, or the first of a "football club" system. This option would effectively end the existence of pigskin, unless they could buy land and build their own fields.

The "options" discussed here are not options - all or nothing. Kill one organization in favor of an untested new one, or work within the current system to make things better.

 

[GhostWriter]

I have to agree with Vindog, I moved to St Mary's County from PG County 2 years ago. I grow up in a county run football organization which could have cared less about the kids, the equipment was in poor condition (safety was the last concern). Having the county getting involved in the football program will make the parents put out more money for registration and make the football experience worse and like Vindog said once the money gets tight, the county will get rid of that $55,000 job or charge it to the taxpayers of St Mary's County, then were will the football program be. Yes, South County did ask for the county support because the surrounding counties will not play their organization due to the surrounding counties experience with the OSPREYS, which the county was involved in.

No one has a problem with a new league starting, go for it. But now that you've brought the county into this to try to eliminate a program of 25+ years, that has been a great experience for atleast 98% of the kids that got involved with Pigskin. I have a serious problem with that......

Pigskin is thinking about re-establishing their affiliation with the National Organization Popwarner. Which will required Pigskin to submit a full 2006 schedule that will be published on their website, no more guessing where and when you will be playing. This affiliation will also mean that the stardards that this organization will have to follow will well exceed the proposal by the county for raising community awareness. The county has now idea what the Pigskin organization currently does to even have the facts to bring this proposal to the table, the county asked the comminssioners to approve a raising the community awareness program for the football program and Pigskin has been exceeding these stadards for years.

The taxpayers of St. Mary's County really need to contact these county representives before they start wasting tax money on something like this. If the new leagues wants to start, please do, but leave the county out of it. I already pay enough taxes in this county!!!!!!!!

 

[big_poppa]

Slow your role people, my my my. I think everyone has gotten their ideas mixed up, and you are trying to figure out what was truly meant to come of all this. Chris originally (prior to the county ever being involved) had Calvert interested in playing his league. This is a FACT, look at the early posts. It was after this that the County (Mr Shepard) stepped in and said, hey I think we could take this over with the Commissioners approval. I personally think it would be a great thing for the county to run this. I mean I just want my sons to come first no matter what. Some of you on here bickering back and forth must be some of the same parents that were involved in the fights at the pigskin games. That is how you are acting. I am a very young parent myself, and played football my entire life, both for pigskin, and then into high school. I opted out of playing in college to pursue a career in the USMC. However things have come full circle and here I am with my oldest boy ready to play football, and this is what I have to look forward to!!!!! Chris is on the right track with this, I do not feel he is trying to take money from anyone for himself. He just wants to put his children into a program in which they will come first. That is all I want too. And hopefully, just hopefully, that is what matters most to you as well. Just my two cents.

 

[Christy]

Never had a problem with any of my three years with a southern team. :shrug:

The coach of one of the Southern Teams was frequently removed from the game due to his tirades and physical threats to parents and other coaches. Sorry, I'm a Northern Team snob.

 

[mainman]

Holy ####, I think you all played without helmets as kids....

I will more than likely join a southern league, I am in california....

 

[Christy]

I agree Christy - options are great. As in true options - pigskin, or Southern County. But when ST MARY'S COUNTY steps in and tells pigskin that they will not be allowed to play on county leagues anymore, and that they have to disband into the "county approved clubs" organization, that is not a choice.

Good point. I'd never thought of that. I don't think St. Mary's Pigskin should ever be disbanded. It's the last bastion of hope for little boys being able to spend some quality time in an unPC environment and become men.

But like I said previously, I never had a bad experience with St. Mary's Pigskin league. Friends of mine have, and have had legitimate bad experiences with coaches and the league in general. Tough call. :shrug:

 

[vindog]

Poppa, I think that you are missing the point. Like I posted earlier - I am sure that Chris had interest from other counties to play, but interest isn't a committment. Suppose you lived in Calvert, and your boy played for the county sponsored team. Would you feel comfortable playing against a team from St. Mary's NOT sponsored by the county? For starters, I think the insurance companies supporting Calvert would have a #$% - Fit. It would be virtually impossible for a non county team to play a county team, because of the liability issue.
I am somewhat willing to believe that the county decided to start this league idea themselves. What I am opposed to on that count is that the county never contacted pigskin to hear their side of the story - they looked at SOME videotape - supplied by the complaintants, and they heard from those "wronged" by the league. At no point did they ever undertake an honest investigation, nor even try to contact pigskin's board to get their input, or hear their side. Then, with a flick of the wrist....POOF... the county magically comes up with this "club football" concept, Arthur Radford appears at a south county meeting, and now they are claiming that next week, the deal will be done. Dammit, if someone is gonna railroad an organization to which I have dedicated my personal time, I am not going to roll over without a fight.
And to your other point about casting a blanket accusation that because there are a few of us out there who won't just read these posts without asking questions, must be "the same parents that were involved in the fights at the pigskin games", you had better be careful how you throw about accusations. Since when is asking a question and demanding a straight answer causing problems? I have brought up a NUMBER of issues in this forum, and still have YET to get a straight answer, other than requesting that I call them directly, so they don't have to continue a discussion on the facts in public.
I respect your service, as I am AD Navy myself, but don't just assume that when we ask questions, we are causing problems.

 

[vindog]

Holy ####, I think you all played without helmets as kids....

I will more than likely join a southern league, I am in california....

More power to you MM. I just hope that the county will allow us the choice. And by choice, I mean Pigskin, or South County, not which club within South County's organization we want to join, because the County decided to shut down all football not "blessed" by the Politburo....oops, I mean county parks and rec committee....(lol, sorry, I couldn't resist!)

 

[GhostWriter]

Slow your role people, my my my. I think everyone has gotten their ideas mixed up, and you are trying to figure out what was truly meant to come of all this. Chris originally (prior to the county ever being involved) had Calvert interested in playing his league. This is a FACT, look at the early posts. It was after this that the County (Mr Shepard) stepped in and said, hey I think we could take this over with the Commissioners approval. I personally think it would be a great thing for the county to run this. I mean I just want my sons to come first no matter what. Some of you on here bickering back and forth must be some of the same parents that were involved in the fights at the pigskin games. That is how you are acting. I am a very young parent myself, and played football my entire life, both for pigskin, and then into high school. I opted out of playing in college to pursue a career in the USMC. However things have come full circle and here I am with my oldest boy ready to play football, and this is what I have to look forward to!!!!! Chris is on the right track with this, I do not feel he is trying to take money from anyone for himself. He just wants to put his children into a program in which they will come first. That is all I want too. And hopefully, just hopefully, that is what matters most to you as well. Just my two cents.

Big_Poppa, The fact is that Calvert would not play South County unless they fixed an issue that the OSPREYS left or become affiliated with the County. Calvert had no intentions of playing the new league without the above being complete.

 

[big_poppa]

Hey Vin I guess my post was more so out of frustration because it seems like everyone agrees that something needs to happen, someone is trying to make things happen, and is getting punished for it. I have tried for the past two years to coach in the pigskin league, and have never had phone calls returned etc.... II still to this day keep in contact with one of my first football coaches (the other passed away last year, if you coached pigskin long enough I am sure you know who I am talking about). In other words I love the game, and it breaks my heart to see and hear kids and parents talk about how bad things have gotten with the league. I guess in my own little world, a new league would be a fresh start. There will be problems no matter what happens, one thing I can say for certain though, come august I hope my son has the best opportunity to play the game, wherever that is. I guess in the end I am just standing up for Chris, for him standing up for our children. No offense to you or anyone else associated with pigskin, I was simply talking about the instance with the fight last year. We can't have that stuff man, not in front of our kids. Best of luck to all of those involved, and hopefully what is best for our kids is what will prevail.

 

[GhostWriter]

I have told each of you to call me if you had any questions that had to do with Southern County Youth Football Inc. I have nothing to do with what St. Mary's Parks and Rec. does. I will explain what has taken place up to this date.. I went to St. Mary's Parks & Rec. back in Oct. 2005 to ask them for playing fields so I could have the chance to start another league. I did not at anytime bash Pigskin Football or ask the county to get involved. Parks and Rec. at that time told me they would give me an answer in Jan. 2006... In the meantime I was working with Calvert in trying to form 3 clubs in St. Mary's County and have them play in the Calvert County League. We were going to play in Calvert and also on St. Mary's fields. I knew when I requested fields I would have to take whatever fields that Pigskin did not use. I had no problem with that. I called St. Mary's Parks & Rec. the first week of Jan. and I was told that they now would let me know about having a field or two in May. I didn't know why we had to wait that long until I started talking to Calvert about things and they told me that St. MAry's Parks and Rec. has started requesting info. on how there league was ran. I then started thinking oh now I know why I have to wait till may because they must be wanting to take the League over. I then had a meeting with Parks and Rec.,2 comissioners, and the County advisor. I was as shocked as everyone else when I was told in this meeting that the County was thinking about taking Youth Football over. All I ever wanted was to be able to inner league with the Calvert Football program. I never asked for Pigskin to be done away with or the County to be involved. Once St. Mary's talked about taking over Youth Football Calvert then told me that they wanted to wait to see if Parks and Rec. would be taking over football.. So I agree I do need the county to back me in playing in Calvert that is all I ever wanted. So if anyone can talk the County into letting me get 3 clubs together and taking them to Calvert then be my guest, but before everyone starts saying I got the County involved you need to know the facts I never asked the County for anything. I agree with everyone on here you do not need to hire someone to run Youth Football even if the County takes Youth Football over, you also do not need 225,000 to run Youth Football. I am on everyones side when it comes to that. I am just a father who wanted to give people the option to join a new league or stay with Pigskin. I have never bashed Pigskin Football to the County or anyone else. I also have never asked the County for any money, equipment, or anything else. I do support the County in taking over youth Football so maybe oneday we can inner league with other counties. The numbers on my website can be called no matter if you support the County or not. Tell them your views and opinion. I am willing to work with anyone or any program to make Youth Football an enjoyable one for our kids. The Kids are what are important here no matter what. So please feel free to contact me at anytime. 301-862-4155

www.southerncountyyouthfootball.com

Chris, the fact that you back the county on taking over football means that you atleast back them getting the $55,000 position. The fact that they can not even handle coming to a once a month board meeting for the last 18 years would mean that one of the current positions in Parks and Recs would have to administrator football, there's no way that will happen without football going down the drain. So, it's OK to have two leagues, but only have one set of rules administrator by a county representative that has no idea or experience in running a football league. For instance there are popwarner teams in Charles, PG and I think also in Calvert, if Pigskin becomes affiliated with popwarner, then the county comes in with thier rules, it again eliminates Pigskin from playing under popwarner rules. The county needs to back off and let the leagues run independently, South County has it's rules and Pigskin has it's rules, that how you make every child in St. Mary's County happy, this is options. The county takes over is their way or no way!!!!!

 

[vindog]

Hey Vin I guess my post was more so out of frustration because it seems like everyone agrees that something needs to happen, someone is trying to make things happen, and is getting punished for it. I have tried for the past two years to coach in the pigskin league, and have never had phone calls returned etc... There will be problems no matter what happens, one thing I can say for certain though, come august I hope my son has the best opportunity to play the game, wherever that is. I guess in the end I am just standing up for Chris, for him standing up for our children. No offense to you or anyone else associated with pigskin, I was simply talking about the instance with the fight last year. We can't have that stuff man, not in front of our kids. Best of luck to all of those involved, and hopefully what is best for our kids is what will prevail.

Poppa - I understand your frustration. I moved here a few years ago and was as frustrated with the league as you. The next year, I volunteered on signup to be an assistant coach. Then the head coach quit, and I got told to show up to a meeting. Last year, I was a full time head coach. What I HAVE found out about the league, is that those who stand off to the side and wait for instructions are passed by. I never called and asked to coach. I never waited for someone to tell me what to do. I was dumb enough to walk right in, start asking questions and participating at the coaches meetings. Once you fill out the coaches application, you will be plugged into their phone list, get your background check complete, and NYSCA certification, then you are off.
This is actually one of the things I am hoping to take on this year - making the process for getting volunteers and new coaches more easy - including training, etc. You see, I am not blindly defending pigskin - I think that there are things with the organization that need to be changed, but I refuse to cast aside 25 years of an organizations existence just because I think I have a better idea.