The Rapture was taught by early Church Fathers

onel0126

onel0126

Bead mumbler
Chuckt said:
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. I went to a Catholic Bible study before and I took notes and learned the Friar's system of interpretation and after about half an hour or forty minutes, I came up with a response debunking his system of interpretation. King James Bible And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. http://biblehub.com/matthew/24-4.htm In order to not be deceived, you have need information to discern and sometimes much learning. Being sincere doesn't keep people out of trouble. I'm sure Eve was sincere and very holy because she learned in a perfect environment but she was deceived.
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Please post your educational background
 
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Chuckt

Guest
onel0126 said:
Please post your educational background
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It is none of your business.

Churches can reject your educational background because many are independent.

I would reject your educational background because you learned from your church wrong.
 
b23hqb

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
onel0126 said:
1. I'd like B23 to comment on the above assertion given his place of worship doesn't have a pastor--inspired individuals with something to say can do so. I doubt any have degrees from seminary

2. As a Catholic, I could not disagree with you more. Some of the most holy, God-like people (saints) were poor, uneducated, and in some case teenagers.

Man up. Post YOUR credentials. No PII can be obtained by you simply posting the degree and conferring institution. If it's an online diploma mill, don't bother.
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On-line "diploma mills", as long as they are accredited, do matter. Many small theological schools, especially in the South, some accredited, some not, produce outstanding knowledge of the Bible, and teachers/preachers/workers for the Lord.

We actually agree on parts (#2) of this one, but not all. We have two elders in our small church family that have various degrees in seminary from places like Trinity Theological, Dallas Theological, New Orleans Baptist, Wheaton College, Newburgh seminaries. There are dozens of others that are highly respected and fully accredited. Many other leaders, young and old, have similar degrees - masters and PhD's from those and numerous other fully accredited theological universities and seminary. I just have a regular BA from USF, but after nearly four decades of reading, studying, and discussing the Bible, I and many, many others understand it and knows what it says very well and thoroughly.

Age doesn't matter - there are many young men in their late 20's and early 30's that have the qualities and requirements for eldership and do in fact serve as elders in ministering to their churches, DD's not required. We have many ladies with degrees from Moody, Emmaus, Wheaton, that are leaders in mission work and for women and children in their assemblies.

Educational degrees don't matter - we have speakers that are highly qualified that come from prison, high scxhool diplomas, and just plain school of street knocks. You will know when they come from the heart for the Lord.

Seminary is nice to have, but is not required to be an effective teacher, preacher, or worker for the Word. Just a heart for the Lord.

Understanding what the Bible teaches about ministering, evangelizing, and working missions does not require high level seminary.

You are a hoot, great onel.
 
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Chuckt

Guest
CleanTheSlateInSMC said:
Reading this thread is like watching Trekies argue about who was a better USS Enterprise captain; Kirk or Pickard.
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Different people have different educational views. Professors at a State College or University believe that religion is not science and it is only legal to teach evolution in schools so Onel is putting too much of an emphasis on education because if he wants to go that route, academia would say that a theology degree is not valid because they believe religion isn't science.
 
CleanTheSlateInSMC

CleanTheSlateInSMC

Infidel
Chuckt said:
Different people have different educational views. Professors at a State College or University believe that religion is not science and it is only legal to teach evolution in schools so Onel is putting too much of an emphasis on education because if he wants to go that route, academia would say that a theology degree is not valid because they believe religion isn't science.
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Religion is no more a science than philosophy is. The theory of evolution is based on hard science. Creationism is based on fiction and fantasy.
 
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Chuckt

Guest
b23hqb said:
On-line "diploma mills", as long as they are accredited, do matter. Many small theological schools, especially in the South, some accredited, some not, produce outstanding knowledge of the Bible, and teachers/preachers/workers for the Lord.
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I've seen people go back and forth in arguing whether certain schools are a diploma mill or not.

I know a man who is self taught in Greek who knows more Greek than anyone on this forum. He is extremely impressive with his knowledge and has taught me a lot.
I know a man who has 12,000 people in his church and I'm not sure that he actually has a degree but his MP3 library of him going verse by verse through the Bible is very large and he has been teaching a long time.

The fact is there are people who are very astute who didn't finish college. Bill Gates is one of them who is very very successful. I'm sure you can google successful people who never finished college. There are a lot of people who program for a living who have no ability in creating an operating system.
 
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Chuckt

Guest
cheezgrits said:
You probably think Jesus was a long haired white dude too, don't you?

At least you finally answered my curiosity about you from before and now I know you do not take the bible literally.
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You can know that I believe in Hermeneutics.
 
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Chuckt

Guest
cheezgrits said:
Do you believe in it or practice it?
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I took a class on it. I have a textbook. I have other books on it.
The cults are often the ones who are often able to twist scripture so there is a lot to learn.
Watchman Fellowship has a cult catalog of over 2,000 cults and I've called their offices and have read their material on the cults on Biblical interpretation. Walter Martin also has a section on Hermeneutics in his book "The Kingdom of the Cults".

Scripture Twisting: 20 Ways the Cults Misread the Bible

Exegetical Fallacies by D.A. Carson.

Grasping God's Word: A Hands-On Approach to Reading, Interpreting, and Applying the Bible

Basic Bible Interpretation


I have a lot of books on hard sayings in the Bible and a lot of apologetic books because a lot of people don't understand hard verses of the Bible. I also have a bunch of Hebrew and Greek Lexicons because sometimes there is a dispute over what is said.

I also have Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, 10 Volumes by Gerhard Kittel. I also have the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament except I have the two volume edition.

I have the "Word Studies in the Greek New Testament", 4 Volumes by Dr. Kenneth Weust (NASB Translator).

I have W.E. Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words and I have the man's commentaries.

So basically I have these foundational books and a lot more that I haven't mentioned to help me do Hermeneutics by some of the best minds that have lived.
 
b23hqb

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
Chuckt said:
Yes and I am waiting for what you want to say.
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You won't have to wait long. Good Catholics are salivating for their chance to suffer the tribulation, that they must suffer as Christ did (in their own sense) on the cross. They just can't get by the "It is finished" cry from the cross.

Maranatha.
 
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Chuckt

Guest
b23hqb said:
You won't have to wait long. Good Catholics are salivating for their chance to suffer the tribulation, that they must suffer as Christ did (in their own sense) on the cross. They just can't get by the "It is finished" cry from the cross.

Maranatha.
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Should it be a separate post if they want to debate?
I would require them to give me answers from the Bible instead of giving me just links. I want them to prove they can read the Bible and hold their positions for themselves.
I have my wife's textbook from a Biblical university on End Time positions on the Bible. Books like these are for people who like papers. I may just pull some arguments out of it and any other textbooks I find.

I debated the end times against Pastor Larry. He was Southern Baptist and Post Trib and he gave up but I let him say anything he wanted and I listened and I didn't censor him on my Christian message board when I ran a Christian message board.

I have several posts that I wrote and saved. I have posts on another hard drive that I saved. I bought cables for the hard drive since the laptop stopped working and I hope I can resurrect the posts when I have time but I will not stay content and will continue writing and defending the truth.

Even though we have positions on the end times, I'm willing to be gracious and let them believe what they want to believe unless they want to debate.
I am also aware that God may not have revealed everything and there may be some room in there for things we don't understand.
 
cheezgrits

cheezgrits

Thought pirate
Chuckt said:
Should it be a separate post if they want to debate?
I would require them to give me answers from the Bible instead of giving me just links. I want them to prove they can read the Bible and hold their positions for themselves.
I have my wife's textbook from a Biblical university on End Time positions on the Bible. Books like these are for people who like papers. I may just pull some arguments out of it and any other textbooks I find.

I debated the end times against Pastor Larry. He was Southern Baptist and Post Trib and he gave up but I let him say anything he wanted and I listened and I didn't censor him on my Christian message board when I ran a Christian message board.

I have several posts that I wrote and saved. I have posts on another hard drive that I saved. I bought cables for the hard drive since the laptop stopped working and I hope I can resurrect the posts when I have time but I will not stay content and will continue writing and defending the truth.

Even though we have positions on the end times, I'm willing to be gracious and let them believe what they want to believe unless they want to debate.
I am also aware that God may not have revealed everything and there may be some room in there for things we don't understand.
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I took a class on it. I have a textbook. I have other books on it.
The cults are often the ones who are often able to twist scripture so there is a lot to learn.
Watchman Fellowship has a cult catalog of over 2,000 cults and I've called their offices and have read their material on the cults on Biblical interpretation. Walter Martin also has a section on Hermeneutics in his book "The Kingdom of the Cults".

Scripture Twisting: 20 Ways the Cults Misread the Bible

Exegetical Fallacies by D.A. Carson.

Grasping God's Word: A Hands-On Approach to Reading, Interpreting, and Applying the Bible

Basic Bible Interpretation


I have a lot of books on hard sayings in the Bible and a lot of apologetic books because a lot of people don't understand hard verses of the Bible. I also have a bunch of Hebrew and Greek Lexicons because sometimes there is a dispute over what is said.

I also have Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, 10 Volumes by Gerhard Kittel. I also have the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament except I have the two volume edition.

I have the "Word Studies in the Greek New Testament", 4 Volumes by Dr. Kenneth Weust (NASB Translator).

I have W.E. Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words and I have the man's commentaries.

So basically I have these foundational books and a lot more that I haven't mentioned to help me do Hermeneutics by some of the best minds that have lived.
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Says the person that provides nothing but links. lol
 
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