Tortured Iraqis

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by SuperGrover
let's look at LtCol West, he knew what he did was wrong and even publically stated that he should not go unpunished

What's he supposed to say with the PC crowd and President Candy breathing down his neck?

So far all we know is that some prisoners were stripped down and piled up on each other. Big whoop. Then there's the big torture of writing a bad word on one of them and the even worse torture of having a dog bark at a prisoner. Again, big whoop.

You might think this is the ultimate in torture but I do not. And you're not going to convince me that it is. Bush and Co. are playing a PR game right now. They do this crap all the time to try and appease the people that hate them. Bush's main weakness, in my opinion, is trying to curry favor with the Leftists in this country.

 

[Tonio]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
JLab, ST, BuddyLee and Grover: You guys are all nuts.

ST thinks it's people like me that create chaos in the world, not people like Saddam Hussien and Osama bin Laden.

BL thinks the US provoked Hitler into sending Jews into the ovens.

JLab thinks the Iraqis liked ol' Saddam just fine and hate us for being mean to their torturers.

Grover thinks that you shouldn't make terrorists mad by actually standing up to them.

Hate America First - never mind the pesky details.

You have a point, Vrai. Sometimes it's like everyone thinks the US has no right to get angry when terrorists hurt us and kill us. It pizzes me off when people tell us we have no right to get angry.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Tonio
It pizzes me off when people tell us we have no right to get angry.

What pizzes me off even more is when they say we brought this on ourselves. Here's your analogy:

You're a kid in high school. Your parents are wealthy and you get excellent grades. You're Jewish, good looking and have a clear complexion.

There's this other kid who hates you because his parents are crackheads and he lives in a cardboard box in a ghetto.

Another kid hates you because he can't add 2+2 and resents you making the honor roll.

Some other kid hates you because you're Jewish and he thinks you personally murdered Jesus.

Still another kid hates you because he's a Neanderthal zit face and resents your beauty.

The ST/BL/JLab/Grover theory says these kids have the right to beat you up and you brought it on yourself.

 

[SuperGrover]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
The ST/BL/JLab/Grover theory says these kids have the right to beat you up and you brought it on yourself.

vrai, you REALLY don't get the picture or the point...

nothing would please me better than to kick some azz and get my revenge or information that will help save lives, but the US is better than that. when you put on the uniform, there are more responsibilities associated with that uniform and revenge cannot get in the way of that responsibility.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by SuperGrover
vrai, you REALLY don't get the picture or the point...

nothing would please me better than to kick some azz and get my revenge or information that will help save lives, but the US is better than that. when you put on the uniform, there are more responsibilities associated with that uniform and revenge cannot get in the way of that responsibility.

Funny how the same people who will research and post word for word laws and resolutions to justify their behavior are the same ones who refuse to accept other written docuements that go against what they think.
Again, I am thankful we have rational law makers.

 

[vraiblonde]

Here's the part I don't understand:

How else are they supposed to get information out of these guys? I assume they've already tried asking nicely.

The Geneva Convention is retarded. One of the things it says you can't do is offend someone's dignity or humiliate them. Since people are offended by any number of things, not to mention being tossed in prison in the first place, the only way you can follow that particular edict is to never arrest someone.

 

[Tonio]

Originally posted by SuperGrover
nothing would please me better than to kick some azz and get my revenge or information that will help save lives, but the US is better than that. when you put on the uniform, there are more responsibilities associated with that uniform and revenge cannot get in the way of that responsibility.

I can agree with that, Grover, but I still say it's not about a conscious desire for revenge. It's about being fed up with our people being tortured and murdered, and acting on pure, animal rage

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by Tonio
I can agree with that, Grover, but I still say it's not about a conscious desire for revenge. It's about being fed up with our people being tortured and murdered, and acting on pure, animal rage

The one problem with that is that our people don't appear to be acting on pure,animal rage.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Here's the part I don't understand:

How else are they supposed to get information out of these guys? I assume they've already tried asking nicely.

The Geneva Convention is retarded. One of the things it says you can't do is offend someone's dignity or humiliate them. Since people are offended by any number of things, not to mention being tossed in prison in the first place, the only way you can follow that particular edict is to never arrest someone.

retarded or not isn't part of the discussion. It exists and should be followed.

I can see you now. "Officer, of course I was speeding! How else am I going to get to soccer practice on time??!"

 

[Tonio]

Originally posted by SmallTown
The one problem with that is that our people don't appear to be acting on pure,animal rage.

You don't think so? I bet every one of our troops in Iraq burns with animal rage at being hated and hunted by the very people they're supposed to be protecting. Would you blame them if after Fallujah, they just had enough and started hurting any POW they could find?

 

[BuddyLee]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
JLab, ST, BuddyLee and Grover: You guys are all nuts.

ST thinks it's people like me that create chaos in the world, not people like Saddam Hussien and Osama bin Laden.

BL thinks the US provoked Hitler into sending Jews into the ovens.

JLab thinks the Iraqis liked ol' Saddam just fine and hate us for being mean to their torturers.

Grover thinks that you shouldn't make terrorists mad by actually standing up to them.

Hate America First - never mind the pesky details.

Your arrogance is appalling Vrai. Just because you live in a great nation that has done many great things does not mean it doesn't make mistakes every now and again. Pride is one thing but dont let it blind you.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by BuddyLee
Your arrogance is appalling Vrai. Just because you live in a great nation that has done many great things does not mean it doesn't make mistakes every now and again. Pride is one thing but dont let it blind you.

 

[BuddyLee]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
What pizzes me off even more is when they say we brought this on ourselves. Here's your analogy:

You're a kid in high school. Your parents are wealthy and you get excellent grades. You're Jewish, good looking and have a clear complexion.

There's this other kid who hates you because his parents are crackheads and he lives in a cardboard box in a ghetto.

Another kid hates you because he can't add 2+2 and resents you making the honor roll.

Some other kid hates you because you're Jewish and he thinks you personally murdered Jesus.

Still another kid hates you because he's a Neanderthal zit face and resents your beauty.

The ST/BL/JLab/Grover theory says these kids have the right to beat you up and you brought it on yourself.

As I have said before, what a lovely talent you have for putting words in people's mouths. ST/JLab/Grover/and myself did not say that ANYONE had the RIGHT to torture or kill ANYONE. We merely said that we can see why they would do such a thing. Besides WWI and WWII in which I was talking about was long ago and another issue. However, somehow you seemed to morph them into the war with Iraq like Bush morphed Osama into Sadaam.

 

[BuddyLee]

Originally posted by vraiblonde

I rest my case.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by BuddyLee
Bush morphed Osama into Sadaam.

And now I rest MY case.

 

[ceo_pte]

seems to me the prisoners are probably use to it. They were tortured before we came! Why should it change. I'm sure they don't want their country to change.

No seriously. I don't know all the details, just what I have heard here and there, but what appears to have happened is wrong.

 

[SuperGrover]

Iraqi POW Abuse Report Excerpts

Report by Maj. Gen. Antonio M. Taguba, "Article 15-6 Investigation of the 800th Military Police Brigade." The report investigated allegations of prisoner abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison and was ordered by Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez.

Heres the full report (3MB pdf)

Iraqi POW Abuse Report Excerpts (CBS 60 Minutes II)

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by Tonio
You don't think so? I bet every one of our troops in Iraq burns with animal rage at being hated and hunted by the very people they're supposed to be protecting. Would you blame them if after Fallujah, they just had enough and started hurting any POW they could find?

Yea, they look full of rage!

 

[Pete]

I read the whole report and it looks like thay have rooted out the main culprits. The leadership right down to the trolls doing the abuse should get hard time. Let the Army handle it and move on.

I wonder how long before the female General who sat at on the throne over the band of morons plays the "Gender card"? UFB that this crap can go on. Goes to show you that if you put morons in charge of people they will all eventually turn most of them into morons too.

I did like that the IG pointed out several good guys who did their jobs and reported the abuse.

 

[jlabsher]

How many heads will roll and stars and stripes will be lost over this one? Interesting thing a Marine friend told me. The Pentagon brass hates Rummy, he came in and told them "my way or the highway" 4 years ago. If you believe he didn't know about this, maybe they didn't tell him for a reason. An Army friend who has several high contacts in the Pentagon has hinted at the same thing.

Of course it is too much to ask him to do the honorable thing and accept blame and responsibility for what happened on his watch, that's not the American way, nobody falls on their sword by choice anymore.