Tortured Iraqis
- Thread starter vraiblonde
- Start date
Terrorists don’t need an excuse to cause terror (isn’t that their job?); they have a reason, and it wasn't done solely for the media value, even if the media is trying to tie our public sentiment of the alleged abuse into what they are doing as a means to justify the decapitation of the American civilian.
If people paid attention they would have heard the statement where Al Qaeda claims that they took the man to try to secure a release of some of their compadres and when they didn't get that they killed him. Now the media (and you) are saying it was in response to the abuse. I guess when the story doesn't suit your agenda one can always make up their own version, huh?
SurfaceTension
New Member
Conversely, can we allow whomever go around thinking that they can do whatever it is they want to us and not come back at them?
SmallTown
Football season!
obviously you stopped reading after the 1st paragraph. True, they are terrorists and don't need a reason. But when a reason is put forth, they jump it to add legitamacy (in their eyes and they hope the eyes of the muslim world) to what they do.
"For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage for some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib and they refused," one of the men read from a statement.
"So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us but coffins after coffins ... slaughtered in this way."
Club'nBabySeals
Where are my pants?
Two points: Put yourself in this position....you're in a hot zone, where your buddies are dying daily, where the hospital tents are seeing up to dozens of horrifically wounded Americans every day.
You're put in charge of men believed to be behind the insurgent attacks on your buddies, planting roadside bombs and the like.
A CIA or MIA guy comes in and takes over the cellblocks of these detainees believed to be the worst of the bunch. These military officers and civilians intelligence folk tell you that "we" need to humiliate the "terrorists," to soften them up. Not to beat them or torture them physically, but just to scare them or humiliate them. They instruct you (young American woman) to stand behind a pile of naked Iraqis, smile and give a thumbs'-up. Just doing that, they tell you, is likely to make one of these "terrorists" talk and will save the lives of Americans.
Do you do it? A picture of you simply holding that leash (just stand here, hold this and smile) will save lives - we'll show that picture to the next prisoner who comes through and he'll be terrified that he'll be next and so he'll tell us where the bomb factories are!
Those of us sitting here comfortably behind our computers seem awful quick to judge, in my opinion. I don't know how I'd act in a war situation where the bullets are flying, except to say that I've always maintained a philosophy that in a battle situation, where it's me or you who's going to die, I'm going to make darned well sure it's you.
Furthermore, it is perfectly naive, given the testimony by Gen. Taguba yesterday, to think that these 6 reservists concocted this whole thing. They followed orders (not an excuse, of course) because they likely believed that these prisoners would break and sing, saving the lives of their buddies.
We all sit here in solemn judgment, yet we cheer Andy Sipowitz when he beats the hell out of some perp on NYPD Blue because the perp knows where a kidnapped victim might be.
Also, please don't even begin to lay the blame for the beheading at the feet of these reservists. I know what the barbarians said. I also know that they're scumbags who don't need excuses to commit such atrocities (remember Daniel Pearle?).
We have to let the courts work, and they will. The reservists will be punished, no doubt, and some punishment is necessary--if for nothing else to serve as a shiny token for our world image. We will follow this up the chain of command, as well (it's going to lead to General Miller and beyond, I predict).
What it all comes back to for me is, WE ARE AT WAR. I remember reading about a much worse "atrocity" in Afghanistan, where one of the warlords we had hired to help fight the Taliban put something like 120 men in the back of a trailer and just left them out in the sun, where most died from the heat. The reporter was trying to make the case that the United States was guilty of a war crime, yada, yada, yada....I kept thinking only one thing. "Tough toenails for the Taliban." Seriously. You harbor the man who flew airplanes into buildings; you should be glad a 20-megaton nuke didn't vaporize Kabul.
You want to fight a "clean" war? No such thing. All you'll do with that philosophy is get more American soldiers killed.
You're put in charge of men believed to be behind the insurgent attacks on your buddies, planting roadside bombs and the like.
A CIA or MIA guy comes in and takes over the cellblocks of these detainees believed to be the worst of the bunch. These military officers and civilians intelligence folk tell you that "we" need to humiliate the "terrorists," to soften them up. Not to beat them or torture them physically, but just to scare them or humiliate them. They instruct you (young American woman) to stand behind a pile of naked Iraqis, smile and give a thumbs'-up. Just doing that, they tell you, is likely to make one of these "terrorists" talk and will save the lives of Americans.
Do you do it? A picture of you simply holding that leash (just stand here, hold this and smile) will save lives - we'll show that picture to the next prisoner who comes through and he'll be terrified that he'll be next and so he'll tell us where the bomb factories are!
Those of us sitting here comfortably behind our computers seem awful quick to judge, in my opinion. I don't know how I'd act in a war situation where the bullets are flying, except to say that I've always maintained a philosophy that in a battle situation, where it's me or you who's going to die, I'm going to make darned well sure it's you.
Furthermore, it is perfectly naive, given the testimony by Gen. Taguba yesterday, to think that these 6 reservists concocted this whole thing. They followed orders (not an excuse, of course) because they likely believed that these prisoners would break and sing, saving the lives of their buddies.
We all sit here in solemn judgment, yet we cheer Andy Sipowitz when he beats the hell out of some perp on NYPD Blue because the perp knows where a kidnapped victim might be.
Also, please don't even begin to lay the blame for the beheading at the feet of these reservists. I know what the barbarians said. I also know that they're scumbags who don't need excuses to commit such atrocities (remember Daniel Pearle?).
We have to let the courts work, and they will. The reservists will be punished, no doubt, and some punishment is necessary--if for nothing else to serve as a shiny token for our world image. We will follow this up the chain of command, as well (it's going to lead to General Miller and beyond, I predict).
What it all comes back to for me is, WE ARE AT WAR. I remember reading about a much worse "atrocity" in Afghanistan, where one of the warlords we had hired to help fight the Taliban put something like 120 men in the back of a trailer and just left them out in the sun, where most died from the heat. The reporter was trying to make the case that the United States was guilty of a war crime, yada, yada, yada....I kept thinking only one thing. "Tough toenails for the Taliban." Seriously. You harbor the man who flew airplanes into buildings; you should be glad a 20-megaton nuke didn't vaporize Kabul.
You want to fight a "clean" war? No such thing. All you'll do with that philosophy is get more American soldiers killed.
itsbob
I bowl overhand
Blame for WHAT?? I saw the pictures, have read the reports.. where's the torture?? They show a picture of a prisoner next to two dogs, and they say he's being attacked by dogs. Where's the blood, where's the bite marks?? It looks to me like we were going for humiliation, not decapitation.
A picture of a naked Iraqi, or even several, and the media is the first to say we are raping the prisoners. I didn't see anything about rape...
Let me see if I had to choose.. humiliation... decapitation.. which would I choose..
Didn’t stop reading, though we seem to comprehend the information differently. No big surprise there.
They are only giving a reason to play the press and folk like you for the puppets that you are. They want Americans dead and they will kill them as long as they can still breath. Not just soldiers but all Americans. As I recall hearing, the lad that was killed was over there looking for work, not a soldier, and in fact had been detained by Iraqi police and only had been released from custody a short while ago.
They know if they give any reason, no matter how absurd, some people will say they are justified and call for the extraction of our forces before Iraq can transition to its own form of government. Which is exactly what they want. They had unrestricted movement and an ally when Saddam was in power and they want that back. They will continue to do heinous acts to try to get us to leave (by swaying public opinion) and the media is playing right into their hands, just as you have by even considering this legitimizes the act they carried out.
They are vermin and need to be dealt with as such. If you believe that they have done this for the recent events at Abu Ghraib then you are a fool. Just like the fools that said Iraq and Al Qaeda held no ties.
Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
Being "better than that" will only get us killed. We don't have the luxury of trying to be morally superior, since we live in a world where people lust to kill Americans. How many people do we have to kill and torture before the rest of the world stops f***ing with us?
SmallTown
Football season!
Yea, with all the camps we have, they just happened to mention the one where the abuse is taking place
Anyways, like I have said over and over again, the point is we need to quit giving these people the ability to pin these things on us (or whomever) as revenge. Keeo our noses clean, finish the job we are there to do, and be done with it.
Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
Dammit, spreading freedom is a lost cause. The only thing that matters now is our survival, to keep our families from being butchered by fundamentalist fanatics. They're out to get us. They don't give a damn about anything but seeing us all dead. It's either us or them.
Toxick
Splat
Riddle me this: What good will it do to take ice-picks to the eyes and genitals to the prisoners at Gitmo? If you can produce one beneficial, useful result from such an action, I'd support it.
I'm all for fighting dirty, and fighting to win. I'm tired of seeing this "nice war" where it seems that we're more concerned with appearing to be benefactors (and failing miserably), rather than winning, but after considering what you suggested, I hardly see the point to such carnage for so little benefit.
Toxick
Splat
Couple of more healthy alternatives:
1) Get a punching bag.
2) Print out a picture of Al Sadr.
3) Pin the picture to the punching bag.
4) Take out all frustrations and rage.
Or:
1) Find the people who actually did the deed.
2) Cut off pieces of them until they beg you to kill them.
3) Kill them.
SurfaceTension
New Member
And this is the heart of the problem....As long as we worry more about the enemy thinking that we're meanies, rather than getting serious and taking care of business swiftly and effectively, we will continue to have problems.
Psych warfar based on OUR psychology, instead of theirs, is a losing proposition.
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Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
Sure. My point is that the Gitmo detainees and the citizens of Fallujah and Mogadishu are morally responsible for the beheading, since they also lust for American blood. So they deserve the same treatment as the people who actually did the deed.
Plus, if someone wants to kill us, isn't it good strategy to kill them first?