Tortured Iraqis

[mojorisin]

Originally posted by SmallTown
We can not go around thinking we can do whatever it is we want and not have people come back at us. We don't court martial our troops just for marching prisoners in women's underwear. Just like some feel justified in doing this stuff to the iraqi prisoners, I'm sure these thugs feel even more justified. These are terrorists, they don't need much (if any) reason to do harm, but if they can make their actions correspond to a certain event (iraqi soldiers being messed with) then their support grows. Yes, the two acts are not equal in severity, but not at all unsuspected. So yes, those few soldiers of ours who decided to make asses of themselves now have this man's blood on their hands. Hope they are as happy now as they appear to be in those photos.

Dude we are a superpower. We can do what ever the hell we want to do. We pay for everything, everyone is always asking us for help. You can never win with a person that thinks like you. If we do nothing we are asses. If we do anything to help, we are not doing enough.

 

[Tonio]

Originally posted by mojorisin
Dude we are a superpower. We can do what ever the hell we want to do. We pay for everything, everyone is always asking us for help. You can never win with a person that thinks like you. If we do nothing we are asses. If we do anything to help, we are not doing enough.

The whole concept of "superpower" is a farce when our citizens are being slaughtered, tortured and beheaded. Civilization is dead. How can there be any such thing as morals or values when we are beset on all sides by bloodthirsty fanatics? Our future will be nothing but endless slaughter of our enemies just to survive. We'll be hip-deep in their blood and they will keep on coming and coming.

Have a nice day.

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by Tonio
Dammit, spreading freedom is a lost cause. The only thing that matters now is our survival, to keep our families from being butchered by fundamentalist fanatics. They're out to get us. They don't give a damn about anything but seeing us all dead. It's either us or them.

How sad.

I'm glad you think all the people who ever died for freedom was fighting for a lost cause.

 

[Tonio]

Originally posted by sleuth14
How sad.

I'm glad you think all the people who ever died for freedom was fighting for a lost cause.

Their sacrifice wasn't in vain if it was to protect our country. I'm saying that there's no hope of any other country in the world adopting our system of democracy. They hate us so much that they don't want anything to do with us.

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by Tonio
Their sacrifice wasn't in vain if it was to protect our country. I'm saying that there's no hope of any other country in the world adopting our system of democracy. They hate us so much that they don't want anything to do with us.

Can one of our history buffs post all the countries that have turned towards freedom and democracy since WWII?

 

[SmallTown]

Views like those of Tonio simply show the terrorists are winning. When they get us to forget about what made us the power we are today, to go against ever principle we hold sacred, start fighting the war on their terms, they have won. Again I am thankful that the ones actually making the decisions do not feel this way.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by Kyle

I've always said the best thing we could do is nuke the middle east, pave it over and build condos.

Heck. China is overcrowded. After we rebuild the middle east, start shipping the chinese there. Solve two problems at once.

 

[Kyle]

Originally posted by SmallTown
... Heck. China is overcrowded. After we rebuild the middle east, start shipping the chinese there. Solve two problems at once.

Nuke it too and no overcrowding/no one has to move.

 

[Tonio]

Originally posted by SmallTown
Views like those of Tonio simply show the terrorists are winning. When they get us to forget about what made us the power we are today, to go against ever principle we hold sacred, start fighting the war on their terms, they have won. Again I am thankful that the ones actually making the decisions do not feel this way.

My point is that the whole notion of "principles" might be a laughable fantasy. Do we want to survive, or do we want to hold on to our principles? It's one or the other. Kill or be killed. Torture or be tortured.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by Kyle
Nuke it too and no overcrowding/no one has to move.

But i've seen some pretty cute chinese girls...

 

[Tonio]

Originally posted by sleuth14
Can one of our history buffs post all the countries that have turned towards freedom and democracy since WWII?

I know all that. I'm saying that in 2004, the world hates us and lusts for our blood.

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by Tonio
My point is that the whole notion of "principles" might be a laughable fantasy. Do we want to survive, or do we want to hold on to our principles? It's one or the other. Kill or be killed. Torture or be tortured.

I would rather die an honorable death, having stood by and remained strong in my beliefs, fought honorably, and having not lived as a hypocrite, than stoop to their level just so I can live a few years longer in shame for my actions.

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by Tonio
I know all that. I'm saying that in 2004, the world hates us and lusts for our blood.

Why don't you get it straight? The Islamic militant jihadists hate us and lust for our blood. The dictators and their armies lust for our blood.

People who want peace and freedom do not. And most Iraqi's want peace and freedom.

Rumsfeld and Myers said it best the other day at the House Armed Services Committee:

Rumsfeld: "We have a free, open system. We've got wonderful people in this country. We're not an evil society. There's not something bad about America. America is not what's wrong with the world. And the overwhelming majority of the people in the world know that."

"I mean, why do people line up to get into this country, year after year after year? I read all this stuff -- "people hate us, people don't like us" -- the fact of the matter is, people line up to come into this country every year. Because it's better here than other places, and because they respect the fact that we respect human beings. "

Myers: "We've got 37,000 folks in Korea, been there for 50 years. We've got 47,000 troops in Japan, been there for over 50 years. Over 100,000 troops in Germany. They want us there. Occasionally, a soldier, sailor, airman, Marine missteps and we work our way through it because it's been a long, long relationship. The world knows that the U.S. military is the best-trained, the best-led and carries American values wherever they go. And they appreciate that."

...

"I just came fro a NATO meeting. I talked to the major contributors to our operations in Iraq, the other countries. They were firm in their resolve. This incident was not lessening their resolve. They want to get the mission done. And I thanked them for that."

"But they're with us. They know us."

"The world knows us. We're probably in 140 countries today doing -- or this past year, we've been in 140 or 150 countries doing training operations and other things. They know us. They know the true American service men and women, and they trust us and they respect us. "


Tonio, your point-of-view, quite frankly, is that of an isolationist.

 

[Tonio]

Originally posted by sleuth14
Why don't you get it straight? The Islamic militant jihadists hate us and lust for our blood. The dictators and their armies lust for our blood.

People who want peace and freedom do not. And most Iraqi's want peace and freedom.

I'm not trying to be an isolationist. And I know that there are plenty of people in the world who want peace and freedom. And I'm glad for that.

All I'm saying is that it feels like the whole world wants to kill us.

 

[SuperGrover]

Originally posted by sleuth14
I would rather die an honorable death, having stood by and remained strong in my beliefs, fought honorably, and having not lived as a hypocrite, than stoop to their level just so I can live a few years longer in shame for my actions.

WELL SAID!!

There's honor in the battlefield, there's no honor in abusing POWs

 

[SuperGrover]

Originally posted by Tonio
I'm not trying to be an isolationist. And I know that there are plenty of people in the world who want peace and freedom. And I'm glad for that.

All I'm saying is that it feels like the whole world wants to kill us.

media bias? shocking stories sell....

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by Tonio
All I'm saying is that it feels like the whole world wants to kill us.

Sometimes it does.
But for one time in my life I agree with Supergrover, it is the media that makes you feel this way.

Sometimes I think our media are the most unpatriotic people in America. All they ever want to tell us is how evil America is.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by SmallTown
When they get us to forget about what made us the power we are today, to go against ever principle we hold sacred, start fighting the war on their terms, they have won.

Yeah, when the terrorists are laying dead on the side of the road, they've sure won alright. That whole concept is retarded.

If you engage the enemy, the only intelligent thing to do is fight to win. If you're not going to do that, you have no business being there. When Truman dropped the bomb, them Japs straightened up REAL quick. History proves my point.

 

[crabcake]

Originally posted by SuperGrover
There's honor in the battlefield, there's no honor in abusing POWs

Give me a couple prisoners to torture and humilate while the camera is rolling. I assure you ... I'll sleep VERY peacefully at night and my conscience won't waver one damn bit!

You don't go into a war with toy guns; you have to be prepared to fight your enemy, and you can't do that successfully when you are playing by a soft set of rules they would spit on after molesting you and beheading you and dragging your naked body down a dusty street. We're going into THEIR COUNTRY, on THEIR SOIL, and waging a war on THEIR TURF. We're naive fools to assume they'll conform to our ways of war and play by the rules.

 

[SuperGrover]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
If you engage the enemy, the only intelligent thing to do is fight to win. If you're not going to do that, you have no business being there

definitely! but in a POW detention facility the intelligent thing to do is to follow the IROE.