Tortured Iraqis
- Thread starter vraiblonde
- Start date
I didn't add the 'www'
My argument is equal to if not more legitimate then yours. I haven’t gone off topic; I am just stating how I observe you and your comments on this topic. I have said that the soldiers who did wrong (if in fact it was wrong) will receive their rewards for doing so. I have said that Berg’s attackers are Al Qaeda and we are hunting them down (all over the world). Pretty much on topic isn’t it?Originally posted by SmallTown
There is no towel around my head
My bretheren? Not quite. But in typical fashion, you go completely off topic when you don't have a legit argument.
Cowards? Possibly. Only using actions such as prisoner abuse to a weak excuse for killing? Possibly.
The problem is, Ken, you will NEVER destroy al qaeda. It is more of an idea than a group. As long as people hate the US (will always happen) there will always be people killing us. Yes, I know we all get the warm fuzzy with dubya goes on the air and says we're making great progress in the war on terror and we are safer today than we were at 9/11.
It is nice to see that you have already caved to the terrorists and that you are willing to give up the hunt. Nice spirit there “Abdul”. And many people have “hated” us without killing us. When was the last time the French sent in teams of people to kill a bunch of us? Everyone knows they hate us with a passion, but do you see them doing that? No you don’t, they just sell weapons to others hoping they will take the risk, after all they are French. You can hate without killing, can’t you? But who is it that has flown planes into our buildings killing thousands of our citizens and who is it taking non-combatants and killing them? And whether you care to admit it or not we are making progress. It might not be in huge leaps and bounds but in small calculated steps, have you noticed any other attacks here on the home front lately? That in itself probably p!sses you off to no end. It seems that if we aren’t continuously in flames and turmoil then there is no problem. Unlike you, most of us have removed our heads from the sand and believe that we should be taking the fight to our enemies instead of just waiting for their next round of attacks.
Removing clothing removes layers of comfort and protection that allows one to maintain control of their faculties. By removing them a prisoner can slowly be broken to talk and the clothing can be used as a reward for cooperation or a punishment for failing to. It is that simple. Stacking them up on top of each other probably has similar benefit by using group punishment to encourage cooperation. It might not be a fast process but I bet it worked fairly well. Faking a prisoner to believe that you are going to shock him might garner some information if he believes that it will happen, not that it did. Have you ever talked to a veteran Vietnam POW on what was done to them? Compared to what was done here I don’t think it comes close to that true abuse which didn’t get anywhere near the coverage as what this little incident has. Was it beyond the law, might be, but that is what the military courts will determine.
Some of you on here, in my mind, are nothing more then modern day Jane Fonda’s giving aid and comfort to our enemies just like she did in the 70s and just like then the press is standing right there with you feeding you every thought and idea for you to claim as your own.
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SmallTown
Football season!
Damn, I thought I logged in as smalltown, not abdul. So everyone named abdul is a terrorist or a terrorist wanna be typical racist behavior. Way to go billy bob
No, I am quite thankful we have not had any more attacks. But there were many years between the first WTC attack and the fatal one. I'm optimisitic, but won't be suprised if something were to happen again.
Don't mistake intelligence for weakness. It is not I who has caved in to the terrorists. It is the people who decide to forget about international laws with respect to war and just kill kill kill. Doing this is along the exact same lines as al-qeada chopping the head off of a civilian. I'm all for going after ones who attack us. Your example of the WTC bombings. The ones who carried out the mission pretty much took care of themselves, but yes I would love to have the others who helped plan it in custody. Yes, in custody. One thing you'll realize is that dead people don't respond well to questioning.
I get it now... You, Vrai, and Tonio are using this backwards mentality to drum up support for Bush. You think "If we show these people the extreme side of war, they'll realize Bush is level headed and is going about things the right way. Lets keep him in office!"
If the election were held tomorrow, my vote would be for Bush. so you guys can come down from the off the wall stories and act like normal americans again.
crabcake
But wait, there's more...
To argue that those creatures were justified in chopping that kid's head off is about the most unpatriotic display I can imagine ... hell, I hafta say it's almost worse than burning a flag; at least that can be replaced. I'd like to see a few of you who are arguing that they were justified in their actions explain that to the kid's family's faces.
SmallTown
Football season!
Originally posted by tatercake
I'd like to see a few of you who are arguing that they were justified in their actions explain that to the kid's family's faces.
Nobody is saying we felt it was justified. We (I) am saying in THEIR eyes and the eyes of the people who hate the US, they feel they were justified in chopping the guy's head off. To them, our actions in the prison camp gave them enough reason to do what they did. Nobody here is saying what they did wasn't wrong and that we don't want to get those who were a part of it. We sometimes forget these terrorists don't think the way we do. They aren't as rational.
crabcake
But wait, there's more...
EXACTLY!!! Which is precisely why we need to toss aside the geneva conventions and all our soft war time traditions, and play the game the exact same way they are ... with extreme brutality. 
We have to "speak" their language ... and their language ain't "gentle war".
Larry Gude
Strung Out
ST...
...excuse me for being sceptical of you but...
...I think you are ignoring the obvious on purpose.
"Them" as the anti Bush forces are loath to admit, is the people who bombed the World Trade Towers the first time, an attack that, had it been successful, would have dwarfed the loss of life on 9/11.
"Them" is the people who bombed the Kobar Towers in Saudi killing 19 US military personel.
"Them" is the people who bombed two US Embassies, US soil, in Africa killing over 200 and injuring some 2,000.
"Them" attacked the USS Cole.
"Them" gave an ultimatum to Spain.
"Them" ran roughshod in Afghanistan training to bring terror to the world.
"Them" have been in and out if Iraq for over a decade and if you are looking for the real motivation as to why they cut a helpless human beings head off, a non-combatant, look at the connection to all the other acts of terror over the last ten years or so:
Fear of the modern world as manifested by the United States of America.
...excuse me for being sceptical of you but...
...I think you are ignoring the obvious on purpose.
"Them" as the anti Bush forces are loath to admit, is the people who bombed the World Trade Towers the first time, an attack that, had it been successful, would have dwarfed the loss of life on 9/11.
"Them" is the people who bombed the Kobar Towers in Saudi killing 19 US military personel.
"Them" is the people who bombed two US Embassies, US soil, in Africa killing over 200 and injuring some 2,000.
"Them" attacked the USS Cole.
"Them" gave an ultimatum to Spain.
"Them" ran roughshod in Afghanistan training to bring terror to the world.
"Them" have been in and out if Iraq for over a decade and if you are looking for the real motivation as to why they cut a helpless human beings head off, a non-combatant, look at the connection to all the other acts of terror over the last ten years or so:
Fear of the modern world as manifested by the United States of America.
SmallTown
Football season!
Re: ST...
Larry, As I have stated on many occasions in this thread, the terrorists don't "need' a reason to attack. But when given one, they take it and milk it for all it is worth. They know that if they keep randomly attacking people, after awhile the world (and their own peeps) will grow tired of it. If they can correlate an attack with something we do, they feel they will at least maintain support of the anti-american groups.
Larry, As I have stated on many occasions in this thread, the terrorists don't "need' a reason to attack. But when given one, they take it and milk it for all it is worth. They know that if they keep randomly attacking people, after awhile the world (and their own peeps) will grow tired of it. If they can correlate an attack with something we do, they feel they will at least maintain support of the anti-american groups.
SmallTown
Football season!
What is amazing is this thead has been going back and forth, but when you cut through all the name calling, putting words into people's mouths, etc, we are all saying the same thing. What some of our troops did was wrong and should be punished. Chopping the head off of an American civilian is unacceptable and those who were a part of this must be caught.
These are the main themes. Just some are a little less sophisticated in how they want to deal with it.
These are the main themes. Just some are a little less sophisticated in how they want to deal with it.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
ST...
...I don't think we ARE all saying the same thing.
My first reaction was 'we're better than that!" and that's all well and good and we ARE.
Perspective allowed me to step back and see this for what it is; a rather small incident in the larger picture of what we're trying to for Iraq. Morons all over the place, here and in Iraq, are trying to make the argument with a straightface that they'd rather have Hussein back becasue he would never do such things.
Massive US public outcry has totally removed the possibility that we condone this. This MUST be compared to the reaction of the Islamic world in regards to a beheading of an innocent man.
The Islamic world and the Iraqi people lived with the man responsible for the murder more Muslims than anyone else for over 30 years. Spare me the crocodile tears.
We'll do the right thing and investigate the jail house stuff and punish where applicable.
In the mean time I'm looking for the media to get over the 'next big thing' that will sink Goerge Bush and I'm looking for Iraqi patriots to start being very public that they are ready, willing and able to take control of their destiny which will include dealing with their own security, war criminals and other nefarious home grown rapscalions...and it will be far more outrageous than some 20 year old kids posing for frat pictures.
It will also be just. But it is very much up to them, not us.
...I don't think we ARE all saying the same thing.
My first reaction was 'we're better than that!" and that's all well and good and we ARE.
Perspective allowed me to step back and see this for what it is; a rather small incident in the larger picture of what we're trying to for Iraq. Morons all over the place, here and in Iraq, are trying to make the argument with a straightface that they'd rather have Hussein back becasue he would never do such things.
Massive US public outcry has totally removed the possibility that we condone this. This MUST be compared to the reaction of the Islamic world in regards to a beheading of an innocent man.
The Islamic world and the Iraqi people lived with the man responsible for the murder more Muslims than anyone else for over 30 years. Spare me the crocodile tears.
We'll do the right thing and investigate the jail house stuff and punish where applicable.
In the mean time I'm looking for the media to get over the 'next big thing' that will sink Goerge Bush and I'm looking for Iraqi patriots to start being very public that they are ready, willing and able to take control of their destiny which will include dealing with their own security, war criminals and other nefarious home grown rapscalions...and it will be far more outrageous than some 20 year old kids posing for frat pictures.
It will also be just. But it is very much up to them, not us.
SmallTown
Football season!
Re: ST...
Thats the thing, the only people trying to put a political light on this are the republicans. Sure, some dems have come forth and said this is a stain on Bush's presidency, but quite frankly these people would same the same thing if Bush got out of bed and put his left foot on the floor before his right.
All I keep hearing (and rightfully so) from the republicans is this isn't a political issue. I suppose they are trying to cut that notion out before it even becomes a problem, but when people hear over and over that it isn't a political issue, they begin to wonder why they keep saying it in the first place.
Thats the thing, the only people trying to put a political light on this are the republicans. Sure, some dems have come forth and said this is a stain on Bush's presidency, but quite frankly these people would same the same thing if Bush got out of bed and put his left foot on the floor before his right.
All I keep hearing (and rightfully so) from the republicans is this isn't a political issue. I suppose they are trying to cut that notion out before it even becomes a problem, but when people hear over and over that it isn't a political issue, they begin to wonder why they keep saying it in the first place.
Okay, now I KNOW you only do this to get a rise out us.
Good fake, ST - you had me going there for awhile.
SmallTown
Football season!
Originally posted by vraiblonde
Okay, now I KNOW you only do this to get a rise out us.
Good fake, ST - you had me going there for awhile.
It is true. All you keep hearing from them is "This isn't a political issue. This isn't a political issue" When nobody that really matters is calling it one.
Keep it up - watching you try and come up with ways to be contrary is highly entertaining.
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Christy
b*tch rocket
But Hezbollah had come out and condemned the beheading. They're all torked off because the beheading put a spotlight on the huge difference in tactics between us and them. We put men in women's panties, they chop off heads. It kind of puts it in a better perspective to the world, what we're dealing with.
SmallTown
Football season!
Originally posted by Christy
Hezbollah doesn't want their a$$ kicked.
Remember all the phone calls the white house received right after 9/11 saying "It wasn't us!"
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