What is it about the gays?..

[PsyOps]

No it doesn't. It sends them a message that God is not okay with them getting married, that's all.

Good grief talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

I don't see expounding on the discussion making a mountain out of a molehill. I mean if you want to use that logic, the baker did just that.

God isn't okay with a lot of things we do. Along those lines I think God isn't okay with people that curse, drink excessively, speed, abuse their wives and kids, have abortions, etc... Should the baker also refuse those people too? I mean we can make the list of acceptable people really, really small with that standard.

 

[Radiant1]

God isn't okay with a lot of things we do. Along those lines I think God isn't okay with people that curse, drink excessively, speed, abuse their wives and kids, have abortions, etc... Should the baker also refuse those people too? I mean we can make the list of acceptable people really, really small with that standard.

Exactly why I asked the question of baydoll. Is a sin a sin or not? Is gay marriage somehow more sinful than adultery or beating your wife or blasphemy, etc?

They're both adults, Radiant. It would be the same if I had an adult daughter who was single and she was having sex with her boyfriend. I wouldn't disown her, I would tell her what God says about her behavior but I would still do things with her. Now if she were to go after a married man and break up his marriage and then THEY got married I wouldn't attend their wedding either.

Ok, but that doesn't answer my question. Why do you draw the line at marriage and not, say, adultery?

 

[Amused_despair]

because gay sex is 'ewwwwwww" but we aren't allowed to discriminate because of ickiness, so it is labeled under religion and then it is ok. The Bible forbids many things, from making oaths to judging people, but gays are the ones who get focused on while the other transgressions against the Good Book get looked over. It is the "icky" factor.

 

[CleanTheSlateInSMC]

because gay sex is 'ewwwwwww" but we aren't allowed to discriminate because of ickiness, so it is labeled under religion and then it is ok. The Bible forbids many things, from making oaths to judging people, but gays are the ones who get focused on while the other transgressions against the Good Book get looked over. It is the "icky" factor.

Yeah! What about all those ham sandwich eaters (Leviticus 11:7-8), tattooed people (Leviticus 19:28), and women who dare speak in church (Corinthians 14:34-35)? Let's not single out gay people for eternal damnation!

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Yup. CARM is on my list of favorites and has been for years. Their logic and facts are really unarguable against. Love the sinner (but not approve of, condone, or promote said sin), but hate the sin. Christians follow the grace that put down the law.

No offense, but citing "facts" and "logic" in a thread about religion is funny to me.

The burden of proof lies with the believers, and nothing in that article does that except for citing passages of a book written thousands of years ago, and re-written over and over again.




On another note, what if all you super-religious folks are wrong? What if there is no afterlife, and you just, die? Do you honestly believe that your short and valuable time on this earth is better spent telling others that their actions are sins and following god's plan, or would it be better spent living your own life to it's fullest? Sure, some of you may actually believe that it's your calling to do what you do, but what if it's all for nothing?

 

[CleanTheSlateInSMC]

No offense, but citing "facts" and "logic" in a thread about religion is funny to me.

The burden of proof lies with the believers, and nothing in that article does that except for citing passages of a book written thousands of years ago, and re-written over and over again.




On another note, what if all you super-religious folks are wrong? What if there is no afterlife, and you just, die? Do you honestly believe that your short and valuable time on this earth is better spent telling others that their actions are sins and following god's plan, or would it be better spent living your own life to it's fullest? Sure, some of you may actually believe that it's your calling to do what you do, but what if it's all for nothing?

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

I couldn't agree more.

I should have added that I don't have a problem with anyone who believes in any particular religion, just a question.

 

[b23hqb]

No offense, but citing "facts" and "logic" in a thread about religion is funny to me.

The burden of proof lies with the believers, and nothing in that article does that except for citing passages of a book written thousands of years ago, and re-written over and over again.






On another note, what if all you super-religious folks are wrong? What if there is no afterlife, and you just, die? Do you honestly believe that your short and valuable time on this earth is better spent telling others that their actions are sins and following god's plan, or would it be better spent living your own life to it's fullest? Sure, some of you may actually believe that it's your calling to do what you do, but what if it's all for nothing?

I, we, are living our lives to the fullest extent in moral, healthy, clean, as pure as we can make them. Debauchery, lust, lascivious living, spur of the moment actions just because it feels good, doesn't matter who it hurts as long as one is happy and satisfied, are not on my list of a "full" life.

But, what if we are wrong? What have we lost? Nothing but a good, clean life.

But if we are right, all non-believers are doomed for eternity in a living state of hell, even worse than dictionary definitions can spell out.

Everyone has a choice. Even the homosexual communi-tuh!

 

[Radiant1]

No offense, but citing "facts" and "logic" in a thread about religion is funny to me.

I don't find CARM particularly logical, but think of it as logic "within the parameters of the Christian faith".

 

[Chris0nllyn]

I, we, are living our lives to the fullest extent in moral, healthy, clean, as pure as we can make them. Debauchery, lust, lascivious living, spur of the moment actions just because it feels good, doesn't matter who it hurts as long as one is happy and satisfied, are not on my list of a "full" life.

But, what if we are wrong? What have we lost? Nothing but a good, clean life.

But if we are right, all non-believers are doomed for eternity in a living state of hell, even worse than dictionary definitions can spell out.

Everyone has a choice. Even the homosexual communi-tuh!

And that's fine, but you've said you were born again, no? Maybe something similar I don't remember.

So, what about your "old" life did you enjoy? Obviously uyour faith has made you change that (not saying it's a bad thing), but some people do enjoy debauchery, lust, lascivious living, and spur of the moment actions that feel good. Including gays. Which brings us back 39 pages to the original question as to why they get the most crap for it. Out of alllllll the other sins laid out by your god, why them? Why the need to tell them they are going to hell if it really doesn;t matter to you, as you've said?

Maybe some folks don't believe in god, and choose to live the life they want. It's what we all want in a free country.

You may have lost out on a good friend or connections with genuinely good people you may not have met in church groups because their life didn't mesh with your views.

You are correct though, if you are correct, us sinners are f'ed. BUT, who's to say Christianity is the right religion? what if Buddhism is right? Islam? Satanism?

Then what?

 

[ProximaCentauri]

I, we, are living our lives to the fullest extent in moral, healthy, clean, as pure as we can make them. Debauchery, lust, lascivious living, spur of the moment actions just because it feels good, doesn't matter who it hurts as long as one is happy and satisfied, are not on my list of a "full" life.

But, what if we are wrong? What have we lost? Nothing but a good, clean life.

But if we are right, all non-believers are doomed for eternity in a living state of hell, even worse than dictionary definitions can spell out.

Everyone has a choice. Even the homosexual communi-tuh!

Yes, everyone has a choice to accept Christ (even Homosexuals) or suffer eternal conscious torment in fire. Is that really a choice? This is similar to the "choice" that North Korean's have when voting in their national elections. Yes, technically they can abstain or even write in a candidate, instead of checking the box for Kim Jong Un.

If they are brave enough to reject Kim Jong, their punishment is death or a short hellish life in a concentration camp- BUT this still pales in comparison to Jesus's punishment of ETERNAL torture if you choose to reject him. So Jesus wins easily against Kim Jong Un in a contest for the most torturous, heinous figure in the known universe! But hey, Jesus loves you....don't you just feel his love?

 

[baydoll]

Yup. CARM is on my list of favorites and has been for years. Their logic and facts are really unarguable against. Love the sinner (but not approve of, condone, or promote said sin), but hate the sin. Christians follow the grace that put down the law.

Thanks for that, b23hqb. It's good to see another brother (sister?) that share the same beliefs.

Looks like we're getting to be a rare breed.

 

[baydoll]

I don't see expounding on the discussion making a mountain out of a molehill. I mean if you want to use that logic, the baker did just that.

God isn't okay with a lot of things we do. Along those lines I think God isn't okay with people that curse, drink excessively, speed, abuse their wives and kids, have abortions, etc... Should the baker also refuse those people too? I mean we can make the list of acceptable people really, really small with that standard.

We're talking about someone making a cake that celebrates a gay wedding, not celebrates cursing, drinking excessively, speeding, abusing wives and kids and having abortions. Apples and oranges and all that.

I believe homosexual activity is a sin and marriage is God ordained as being between a man and woman. A gay wedding would be a celebration of something God explicitly codemned. Yes Jesus ate with tax collectors, but I don't think he would have gone to a celebration of how much money tax collectors extorts from people. Jesus would treat gay couples with love, respect, compassion and he would eat meals with them AS WELL AS tell them the truth about their sins. He would have NOT been silent and let them remain in their sins.

 

[baydoll]

Exactly why I asked the question of baydoll. Is a sin a sin or not? Is gay marriage somehow more sinful than adultery or beating your wife or blasphemy, etc?



Ok, but that doesn't answer my question. Why do you draw the line at marriage and not, say, adultery?

Is gay marriage somehow more sinful than adultery or beating your wife or blasphemy, etc? Absolutely not.

I wouldn't attend a wedding ceremony if the groom was cheating on his fiance, or beating her up either.

Blasphemy? What does that have to do with marriage?

 

[baydoll]

Originally Posted by kwillia


Explain yourself. Your comment makes no sense.

Simply this: Perhaps God DID want that baker to respond just the way he did. Who are you to say otherwise? Do you have the mind of God?

 

[baydoll]

Faith is whatever it means to you. I am an American first, Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution are my bibles. They, and they alone, the principles of individual rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness are the ONLY things standing between you and I and a hostile world. They codify our rights to believe as we see fit, think as we see fit, worship and speak as we see fit, right up to harming one another. Absent the United States of America, Christianity is in a tough spot world wide.

Whatever I know or don't know of God, follows my belief in those words. Now, I do firmly believe we are, basically, a Christian nation and that Christ played a large role in the nations birth. That's why I liked your other post so much; you are sincere and represent the best of the faith, in my view.

Thank you for that Larry.

 

[baydoll]

It sounds like you trying to teach homosexuals that their lifestyle is wrong, you're trying to play Jesus. Isn't that the same thing?

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.


1 Corinthians 11:1

Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.

1 John 2:6

the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

I'm trying to be an imitator of what Christ did. Christ would reach out to homosexuals by teaching (and warning) them the road they're on is leading them to destruction (hell). And if they don't get off that road SOON they'll SOON find themselves facing the wrath of God one day. Not just homosexuals but ANYONE who is without Christ. ALL need to be taught this Truth.

I do this because I love these people and I don't want them to suffer this horrible fate. If I didn't love them, I would care less where they were headed.

 

[baydoll]

Well folks I'm going to have to bow out of this conversation. I pretty much said all I can and I feel like we're going round in circles anyway.


So I'm headed over to hotcoffee's excellent study on the Book of Revelation, hope to see you all there!

 

[Larry Gude]

So I'm headed over to hotcoffee's excellent study on the Book of Revelation, hope to see you all there!

Will there be cake????

 

[baydoll]

will there be cake????

You never know....