What is it about the gays?..

[Larry Gude]

You don't have any idea about what salvation is. Go ahead and argue for a position, but it is stupid to argue against a position your are clueless about. I don't think you are stupid. Do some research on my position, rather than just spouting off against what you know nothing of.

Check it out, please.

What part of 'agnostic' don't you understand? My personal religious journey has resulted in believing the bible is a community organizing handbook, not the word of God or a god. That does not stop me from being humble enough to be able to conceive of being wrong, that there is THE one true God and I am good with people who believe. It is every bit as likely that there is than that there is not. However, I am also able to conceive of mass and energy and elements and no plan and am good with folks who don't believe. I try not to be antagonistic about it and I am damn sure in the trenches with the Christians when the Muslims come. And that's my REAL beef; devout Christians, in my view, are causing us to lose to Islam.

 

[baydoll]

I meant the Christians acting in the capacity to redeem the world with spewing hate, as in the Christians Christy mentions in her 1st posting... I meant no generalizations to all what-so-ever just some.

I will expand on this. Those who choose to be Non- Christians understand that the Christians should keep their mouths shut .. and woe to those Christians who dares to believe/say otherwise. I think this is where the wires get crossed and Non-Christians think Christians must shut the hello up or risk being labeled as 'Hateful Bigots' and 'spewing hate'.

Self-Righteous Non-Christians should not go forth and play judge and jury to people that have not chosen to follow them or the rest of the world because when they do, they do more damage than any Christian could ever do.

The Non- Christian 'faith' is a great place for Narcissistic and Psychopaths to set up shop. What better place to feed your ego?

PS: I meant no generalization to all what-so-ever just some too.

 

[Zguy28]

What part of 'agnostic' don't you understand? My personal religious journey has resulted in believing the bible is a community organizing handbook, not the word of God or a god. That does not stop me from being humble enough to be able to conceive of being wrong, that there is THE one true God and I am good with people who believe. It is every bit as likely that there is than that there is not. However, I am also able to conceive of mass and energy and elements and no plan and am good with folks who don't believe. I try not to be antagonistic about it and I am damn sure in the trenches with the Christians when the Muslims come. And that's my REAL beef; devout Christians, in my view, are causing us to lose to Islam.

What do you mean "lose to Islam"?

 

[migtig]

As I understand it, it is a Christian doctrine to go forth and spread the word of G-d.

So therefore, if they dare to share the word of G-d, then they are labeled bigots, haters, etc.

Once they share the word of G-d, if the sinner refuses to beleive, the Christians duty is to pray for thier soul to hope that the sinner sees the light of salvation before it's too late.

That's not meant to be offensive, but it is taken as such.

You can't deny what the bible says, so if you believe, you believe. If the bible says homosexuality is a sin (which it does), then it's a sin. :shrug: To be told the truth of one's beliefs shouldn't constitute the "sinner" being offended. But the sinners always are. Any sinner who hasn't repented is always offended when confronted with the words from the bible.

Therefore, the bible is offensive, and all who believe in it are offensive, oppressive, jerkwads, etc.

You either accept the bible or you don't. And you either accept that you are a sinner or not.

It sums up to sinners, all sinners, who become offended when they are confronted with the truth of their sin. That causes anger and outrage on behalf of the sinner.

So basically, the truth hurts.

That's why there is such angst.

 

[vraiblonde]

Any sinner who hasn't repented is always offended when confronted with the words from the bible.

The bolded word is the problem. When some stranger tells you you're going to hell and condemned for life, oh and PS you are a sexual deviant, I can understand how that might piss someone off. I thought the idea was to spread the Good News, not make a bunch of value judgments that aren't your job anyway.

So basically, the truth hurts.

Right, but the Bible isn't *the* truth - it's only *your* truth. You can pray for someone's soul all you like, but you're supposed to be doing that in private between you and God, not spewing it on the street corners like, "See me? See what a good Christian I am? Yay me!" Self-righteous pride is a sin, specifically named as one of the seven deadly.

"You", of course, is not you personally Migtig, but you in general.

 

[Larry Gude]

What do you mean "lose to Islam"?

Since 9/11, Islam has been in ascendency, globally. Bin Laden got us to turn on ourselves and enrich Muslim nations far beyond the $30 a barrel economy of pre 9/11. Iraq has gone from a secular lead nation to non secular (Muslim). Another secular nation, Syria, is in trouble of also becoming non secular (Muslim). And Barack H. Obama is president of the United States of America.

Worse yet, instead of more moderate Shia, those nations are trending Sunni, a more militant segment of Islam. Worse than that, Wahabi Sunni.

Throw in Afghanistan which, hopefully, will be more Taliban and less Sunni.
Throw in instability in Pakistan.


George W. Bush, born again Christian, lead us off to the 4th crusade and we're losing.

 

[b23hqb]

Absolutely! There are some that decide it their cause to start a church. Some choose to go to military or college dorms. Some go knocking people's doors. Some walk right to folks on the street. I'm the more passive type. I'm not the 'shove it down your throat' type. When an opportunity comes up for me to talk about it I will. If a gay person walks up to me and asks what I think about homosexuality, the first thing I might say is 'don't ask a question you aren't fully prepared to hear my thoughts on'; then I will talk. The last thing I want to do though is reject them as a person, and offend and demean them.

Well stated. I am of the same mindset of not offending people, or getting in their face, and when I do, I will apologize, like I did last night to LarryGude. I'll stand by my words, but I sure could have presented them less bluntly.

 

[b23hqb]

Since 9/11, Islam has been in ascendency, globally. Bin Laden got us to turn on ourselves and enrich Muslim nations far beyond the $30 a barrel economy of pre 9/11. Iraq has gone from a secular lead nation to non secular (Muslim). Another secular nation, Syria, is in trouble of also becoming non secular (Muslim). And Barack H. Obama is president of the United States of America.

Worse yet, instead of more moderate Shia, those nations are trending Sunni, a more militant segment of Islam. Worse than that, Wahabi Sunni.

Throw in Afghanistan which, hopefully, will be more Taliban and less Sunni.
Throw in instability in Pakistan.


George W. Bush, born again Christian, lead us off to the 4th crusade and we're losing.

LG - I'm sorry for the way I came across in responding to you yesterday. I sure could have worded it in a better and kinder fashion, so I do humbly apologize.

I think "the 4th crusade" is over the top, but I do recall watching the TV at work as the towers fell and making the comment then that "We're at war, and it isn't going to end", and recall some of the retorts by some co-workers that essentially called me crazy. Yeah.

 

[onel0126]

Reading this thread over the past two days really made me think of this:

 

[vraiblonde]

Reading this thread over the past two days really made me think of this:

But do you not believe those words are important?

God is the judge, not you. When you judge, you're basically saying you can do His job better than He can. My understanding, and I can back it up with any number of Bible passages, is that you're supposed to be worrying about your own self, not trying to micromanage God.

 

[Radiant1]

It sums up to sinners, all sinners, who become offended when they are confronted with the truth of their sin. That causes anger and outrage on behalf of the sinner.

So basically, the truth hurts.

That's why there is such angst.

That doesn't explain why there is more vehemence against the sin of homosexuality as opposed to other sins, which was Christy's observation. Homosexuals are more maligned by Christians than Satanists are, and Satanists mock Christianity more than homosexuals do. So why are gays the poster children for "sin" and not say, murderers, adulterers, liars, or any other given sin?

 

[PsyOps]

That doesn't explain why there is more vehemence against the sin of homosexuality as opposed to other sins, which was Christy's observation. Homosexuals are more maligned by Christians than Satanists are, and Satanists mock Christianity more than homosexuals do. So why are gays the poster children for "sin" and not say, murderers, adulterers, liars, or any other given sin?

Actually I think abortion gets more attention over the long-term than this. This just happens to be the issue of the day. And I think Atheists mock Christians far more than Satanists. Satanists seem largely quiet to me.

 

[Toxick]

That doesn't explain why there is more vehemence against the sin of homosexuality as opposed to other sins, which was Christy's observation. Homosexuals are more maligned by Christians than Satanists are, and Satanists mock Christianity more than homosexuals do. So why are gays the poster children for "sin" and not say, murderers, adulterers, liars, or any other given sin?

To answer your question, while avoiding value judgments in either direction:




Like everything else, it's the visibility of it. Overall, how visible - in media, the internets, and society as a whole - are Satanists? They're completely under the radar, and for all intents and purposes invisible to society at large. I do not think this is an accident. I have the feeling that if Satanists collectively attempted to "get out their message", as it were, they would be attacked en masse, not only by Christians, but also by Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Vodouisants, Hindus, Buddhists, along with righteous atheists and agnostics... they would be the one common enemy that all the other ones would side against, rather than squabbling amongst themselves.

Homosexuals, on the other hand, don dental-floss thongs, paint themselves rainbow colors, douse themselves in baby-oil and glitter, attach clothes-pins to their nipples, and march down the boulevards of major cities licking each others' tongues and grabbing each others' junk while Lady Gaga, Madonna, Rupaul and Skrillex are blared at maximum volume in Gay Pride events.



As far as Murderers, adulterers, liars, etc. They are condemned. However, nobody is prancing down the street with anatomically correct balloons singing and dancing for the acceptance of murder and rape.









By extension this is why abortion are vilified on the same level as homosexuals. Because you got people on TV and gathering in crowds chanting delightful mantras like "Stay out of my uterus".

 

[mamatutu]

To answer your question, while avoiding value judgments in either direction:

Like everything else, it's the visibility of it. Overall, how visible - in media, the internets, and society as a whole - are Satanists? They're completely under the radar, and for all intents and purposes invisible to society at large. I do not think this is an accident. I have the feeling that if Satanists collectively attempted to "get out their message", as it were, they would be attacked en masse, not only by Christians, but also by Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Vodouisants, Hindus, Buddhists, along with righteous atheists and agnostics... they would be the one common enemy that all the other ones would side against, rather than squabbling amongst themselves.

Homosexuals, on the other hand, don dental-floss thongs, paint themselves rainbow colors, douse themselves in baby-oil and glitter, attach clothes-pins to their nipples, and march down the boulevards of major cities licking each others' tongues and grabbing each others' junk while Lady Gaga, Madonna, Rupaul and Skrillex are blared at maximum volume in Gay Pride events.

As far as Murderers, adulterers, liars, etc. They are condemned. However, nobody is prancing down the street with anatomically correct balloons singing and dancing for the acceptance of murder and rape.

By extension this is why abortion are vilified on the same level as homosexuals. Because you got people on TV and gathering in crowds chanting delightful mantras like "Stay out of my uterus".

OMGeez, Tox. You did it again. Funny stuff! I now expect, at least, one good belly laugh per day!

 

[b23hqb]

But do you not believe those words are important?

God is the judge, not you. When you judge, you're basically saying you can do His job better than He can. My understanding, and I can back it up with any number of Bible passages, is that you're supposed to be worrying about your own self, not trying to micromanage God.

What you said is true, but those words need to be placed in context. We are allowed, required actually, to judge others in respect to friendships, marriages, work etc. We have judges and juries to judge guilt or innocence in courts. We are told in the Bible to look for the visible fruits and actions of individuals, especially in our own churches or assemblies, in order to determine if the walk is right or need to issue training or discipline. Those are ways we need to judge others in order to really inwardly judge ourselves.

People who use the words "judge not" literally to never judge or determine something about somebody anytime are having a lapse of judgement.

The final judge will be God, of course, and every single soul will face him either willingly or kicking and screaming.

 

[vraiblonde]

Like everything else, it's the visibility of it. Overall, how visible - in media, the internets, and society as a whole - are Satanists? They're completely under the radar, and for all intents and purposes invisible to society at large. I do not think this is an accident. I have the feeling that if Satanists collectively attempted to "get out their message", as it were, they would be attacked en masse, not only by Christians, but also by Jews, Muslims, Sikhs, Vodouisants, Hindus, Buddhists, along with righteous atheists and agnostics... they would be the one common enemy that all the other ones would side against, rather than squabbling amongst themselves.

This is what I was going to post but I couldn't get it to come together coherently.

Nice summation!

 

[vraiblonde]

Those are ways we need to judge others in order to really inwardly judge ourselves.

Exactly. YOU believe that homosexuals are sinners; God says don't hang around with sinners; you do not hang around with homosexuals. That is a valid judgment and in line with the teachings of Christianity.

Where it falls apart is when you vilify homosexuals or abuse them, making your beliefs their problem, instead of doing what Jesus said and worrying about the log in your own eye. You can have an opinion or a belief; what you cannot do is force someone else to conform to your beliefs or consider yourself superior to them.

Do I need to keep stating that "you" is not personal or can we assume that from now on?

 

[Larry Gude]

LG - I'm sorry for the way I came across in responding to you yesterday. I sure could have worded it in a better and kinder fashion, so I do humbly apologize.

I think "the 4th crusade" is over the top, but I do recall watching the TV at work as the towers fell and making the comment then that "We're at war, and it isn't going to end", and recall some of the retorts by some co-workers that essentially called me crazy. Yeah.

No apology needed. You SHOULD be aggressive in support of your beliefs same as anyone else, gays, blacks, dirt bike riding/gun toting/heterosexual/agnostic/heavy metal red necks that like Vivaldi.

I think 4th crusade is DEAD ON. Bush's mistake was not in going. It was in losing. There was NO way he could afford to leave the job undone and hope that someone who shared his ideas would see it through. He ####ed up so bad it is impossible to over state it.

As for winning, simple. Bin Laden did what he had to do; get us to turn on himself, as he had no conventional chance in hell. We should return the favor. We can NOT conventionally defeat Islam. We CAN let it defeat itself as it has been doing for 100's of years as it declined from global dominance and leadership into infighting and self defeating squabbles.

We can let them beat themselves but, we are too stubborn and too invested in admitting how wrong we were and back tracking and leaving them to their own pot holes and infrastructure and culture and health and food and so forth.

Bush's mistake was not in going. It was in losing.

 

[baydoll]

No apology needed. You SHOULD be aggressive in support of your beliefs same as anyone else, gays, blacks, dirt bike riding/gun toting/heterosexual/agnostic/heavy metal red necks that like Vivaldi.

And that's exactly what the owner of that bakery was doing. Thanks, Larry!

 

[PsyOps]

And that's exactly what the owner of that bakery was doing. Thanks, Larry!

I think there's a difference between having an aggressive discussion and refusing to provide service. Me telling you what I believe only through words has no effect on you, except that you choose listen or be offended. Me refusing to serve you because of what I believe and what you believe is contrary to what Christ told us. If Jesus acted that way, he wouldn’t have picked most of his disciples; he would have allowed the prostitute to be stoned to death; he wouldn’t have fed the 5,000. He would have only fed those he agrees with. I wonder how many gay people were in that 5000 on that mountain when he fed them fish and bread? But Jesus did not worry about what he said and how it might offend someone.