What kind of god would send

Xaquin44

New Member
He's given you all the tools, all the information you need. It's your choice to accept or not.

Did you believe everything your parents told you? And, then, grow up and need to figure it out for yourself? And, then come to the conclusion that the vast majority of what they told you was right after trying many other things?

my parents aren't 2,000 year old books written in an archaic language and translated a million times and written by people who I don't know (and for that matter no one knows).

This information is silly. It was written by people who didn't believe in wacky things like "germs" or "the americas".
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
I'm sure thousands of rape victims will be relieved to know that they're small potatos in gods eyes.
Think of it like a doctor.... If there's a small (say, 1%) chance you have some horrible disease, your doctor will probably tell you not to worry, you probably don't have anything wrong. But, the doc is going to test you and treat you like it's a big deal anyway until he/she knows for sure, because 1% is a big concern due to the shere number of people the doc deals with.

Now, God cares about the individual, and tries to deal with each individual appropriately to help them through their troubles. But, is some poor girl raped really the same thing as the Holocaust? Are they even comparable? How about the totality of what's happening in Darfur? Does that compare to one gang member shooting another in Detroit?

Scale.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Again, and again, evolution has nothing to do with the origins of life. Please use google instead of mis-stating something you obviously don't understand. It's not helping your argument any.

Actually, you're making my point. I was talking about the origins of life (see: goo turning to life in previous post), and you answered with evolution.
 

wxtornado

The Other White Meat
Actually, you're making my point. I was talking about the origins of life (see: goo turning to life in previous post), and you answered with evolution.

Actually, you're refering to the wrong post - that's not the one I responded to, but you knew that :howdy:
 

Xaquin44

New Member
Think of it like a doctor.... If there's a small (say, 1%) chance you have some horrible disease, your doctor will probably tell you not to worry, you probably don't have anything wrong. But, the doc is going to test you and treat you like it's a big deal anyway until he/she knows for sure, because 1% is a big concern due to the shere number of people the doc deals with.

Now, God cares about the individual, and tries to deal with each individual appropriately to help them through their troubles. But, is some poor girl raped really the same thing as the Holocaust? Are they even comparable? How about the totality of what's happening in Darfur? Does that compare to one gang member shooting another in Detroit?

Scale.

you know, I always thought you were a pretty nice guy. Would you really tell your daughter that if she were raped?

also, scale my hot ass. He's god (if you believe it). Nothing should be above or below his attention.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
So you are of the group that believes Hell has 'levels', depending on one's severity of sin? So someone who was a "good person" and did wonderful things during life would not be treated as harshly as a murderous, greedy dictator. Correct?

This is one area where theists fight amongst themselves more than with non-theists. :lol:
I'm not sure about Dante's levels of Hell. That may be true, it may not, I don't know.

But, I think we're also rewarded and punished on Earth, too. And, I think God sets in motion those rewards and punishments.



But, to those who will say I'm being hypocritical when I said earlier that a moral person doesn't do things for rewards or punishment avoidance: I'm still saying the same thing. They exist, but a moral person doesn't do things FOR the rewards or punishment avoidance, those things just are part of the package.
 

tommyjones

New Member
you know, I always thought you were a pretty nice guy. Would you really tell your daughter that if she were raped?

also, scale my hot ass. He's god (if you believe it). Nothing should be above or below his attention.

exactly, besides, what makes the halocoust worse anyway? numbers?

seems to me its the same pain, just shared by more. And why wouldn't god have stopped the halocaust if he is indeed all powerful?
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Then why worship him?
At the risk of sounding like FredFlash, I guess that depends on what you mean by worship.
look, it's fine that he'll eventualy punish criminals .... what about the victim? Why not just save the victim outright? Because rape isn't a big deal in gods eyes?
I'm sure you 've heard the argument that there can be no good with no bad. And, I'm sure you've heard the argument that God works in mysterious ways. And, I'm sure you've heard the argument that there's a bigger picture and we'll know it when we go to heaven. So, I'm not sure I can provide you with any meaningful argument that you haven't already rejected.
 

Xaquin44

New Member
At the risk of sounding like FredFlash, I guess that depends on what you mean by worship.I'm sure you 've heard the argument that there can be no good with no bad. And, I'm sure you've heard the argument that God works in mysterious ways. And, I'm sure you've heard the argument that there's a bigger picture and we'll know it when we go to heaven. So, I'm not sure I can provide you with any meaningful argument that you haven't already rejected.

Hey, if you can think of a good reason that isn't steeped in "because" or " .... " well, I guess that's it really, I'd love to hear it.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
my parents aren't 2,000 year old books written in an archaic language and translated a million times and written by people who I don't know (and for that matter no one knows).

This information is silly. It was written by people who didn't believe in wacky things like "germs" or "the americas".
Scale.

And, ask the LDS church. The Americas were well understood and known by God at the time, and he sent Jesus here to witness to those immigrants, too.

And, germs seemed to be pretty well understood by the sons of God, too. Clean vs. non-clean foods, etc......
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Actually, you're refering to the wrong post - that's not the one I responded to, but you knew that :howdy:
I'm trying to answer you all to the best of my abilities, so I actually didn't realize that.

I'm not saying evolution doesn't exist. If it came across that way, please see earlier discussions where I'd already said that. It may very well, or it may not. Much of what we believe in for evolution of humans is better described by environmental effects, but it may still exist.

However, when speaking of faith for the atheist, we have to go back to the origins of life and the universe. Nothing comes close to any reasonable explaination for either of these things. One must have faith, as HVP earlier stated, that science will "eventually" explain it all.

That's where I was going with those statements.
 

hvp05

Methodically disorganized
He's given you all the tools
Most of which I can not use, as I just said. My brain is my most valuable tool because I can evaluate things for myself and question that which I do not understand. The Judeo-Christian God insists I put my emotions first, and I rarely trust them because they are subjective.

It's strange that God should ask us to employ our most subjective trait to find such objective truth. And I guarantee that, once I have found this truth, it will differ in some way and extent to virtually every other person on this planet; that's intellectually dishonest and more than a little frightening.


This_person said:
all the information you need.
Yeah, could you point to which chunk of information that would be? Because I see a lot of them. TIA.


This_person said:
Did you believe everything your parents told you? And, then, grow up and need to figure it out for yourself? And, then come to the conclusion that the vast majority of what they told you was right after trying many other things?
Actually, I was a pretty good kid and didn't break too many of the rules. But I get your point. But I also have to say that, even though my mom and grandparents worked to instill me with their values and so forth, they have not been outraged and disowned me for not entirely following their ideals. They are actually happy that I have chosen a path with which I am comfortable.

The Christian God is not typically regarded as being so accepting.
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
you know, I always thought you were a pretty nice guy. Would you really tell your daughter that if she were raped?

also, scale my hot ass. He's god (if you believe it). Nothing should be above or below his attention.
On the scale of the whole world, my daughter being raped would not be a big deal. On the scale of my daughter, myself, my household, what I perceive the world to be, I would be beyond consoling, and I would kill the MFer that hurt my child that way. No questions, I would.

I never said it was above or below His attention. My point was that if you compare a kid stealing an apple (a commandment broken), to Heather from accounting and Bob from sales fooling around with each other even though they're both married to someone else (another commandment broken), to Khan (not the Star Trek one :lol:), you've got no comparrison scale-wise. And, in my estimation, this is the scale God looks at things. And, in my estimation, he's given us all of the tools we need to NOT do these things, and let's us succeed or fail based upon our own terms.
 

Tootaloo

New Member
Long before Magellan

What's implausible about lifeless goo becoming life, and transforming into water animals, then land animals, then diversing into millions and millions of distinct lifeforms over the millenia, eventually reaching what we have today with no evidence of any of this other than minor changes in traits over hundreds of years? Are you serious?

And, you proved that the world is coin-shaped.

Long before Magellan sailed the world, the Bible recorded that it was a sphere in the book of Job...long before currents were proved to exist in the ocean...the book of Job recorded rivers under the sea...long before we dug up bones of dinosaurs the bible described them...long before we knew that vitamin K coagulated blood and how long it took to be activated in a new life, God told the Hebrews when to wait x amount of days to circumcize...the Bible gives more historical information about ancient civilizations that has been proved than any other single source. Science does more to prove the Bible than we can catch up with. It is an amazing document...pick it up...read it!
 

This_person

Well-Known Member
Hey, if you can think of a good reason that isn't steeped in "because" or " .... " well, I guess that's it really, I'd love to hear it.
If you can accept a reason along the lines of "there's more to life than what we can control and, sometimes, more than we can comprehend", I'd give it to you. But, we've talked, and I don't think you'd accept God allowing bad things to happen without explaining to us, in terms we can understand, why He does that, so I won't try.
 

Xaquin44

New Member
On the scale of the whole world, my daughter being raped would not be a big deal. On the scale of my daughter, myself, my household, what I perceive the world to be, I would be beyond consoling, and I would kill the MFer that hurt my child that way. No questions, I would.

I never said it was above or below His attention. My point was that if you compare a kid stealing an apple (a commandment broken), to Heather from accounting and Bob from sales fooling around with each other even though they're both married to someone else (another commandment broken), to Khan (not the Star Trek one :lol:), you've got no comparrison scale-wise. And, in my estimation, this is the scale God looks at things. And, in my estimation, he's given us all of the tools we need to NOT do these things, and let's us succeed or fail based upon our own terms.

would you tell her you thought that?

you keep avoiding that.


next:

according to 2A, each sin is of equal importance in gods eyes. Now, if we accept that, then there is no scale.

sidewaysly, there should be no scale anyways because when someone (god in this case) is by definition infinate, everything regardless of (global) scale will be infinitly small.

This is a guy who handcrafted each atom, and you're blathering on about scale.
 

Xaquin44

New Member
If you can accept a reason along the lines of "there's more to life than what we can control and, sometimes, more than we can comprehend", I'd give it to you. But, we've talked, and I don't think you'd accept God allowing bad things to happen without explaining to us, in terms we can understand, why He does that, so I won't try.

no, "he" doesn't. People with their own interpretations do in his name. Several on this board alone (myself included).
 
Top