Muhammad vs Jesus The Christ

[Xaquin44]

I still want to know what was so wrong with the Old Testament that it had to be thrown out.

 

[Xaquin44]

You are so tiresome. - 2A

awwwwwww then why bother with the karma

cummon 2A, WWJD?

 

[Starman3000m]

I still want to know what was so wrong with the Old Testament that it had to be thrown out.

Well, for one it was mankind's inability to abide by and wholly live by God's original Ten Commandments.

The fact that all mankind slipped up and became guilty of breaking one or more of those commandments constituted that we should receive the due penalty for breaking God's Laws.

Be honest before God, Xaquin; Can you say that you have been able to live by the Old Testament rules and have abided them to 100% perfection?

It is because of man's weakness, sinfulness and outright disobedience that we have become separated from the Love of God and are unable to abide by the Ten Commandments 100%. Breaking any one of them constituted punishment of death to the lawbreaker. You may recall that in the Old Testament days, the High Priest had to bring blood sacrifices and offerings to atone for the sins of the people. If we were to live by those rules today you would need to have a high priest mediate on your behalf as in the days of old.

However, God knew that in our weakness we all would fail His test and He had already set out to send His Son, Yeshua, as Saviour. It is through Yeshua's Blood Atonement that you can be forgiven and reconciled with God if you are sincere in wanting to be close to God.

We no longer need to have animals sacrificed as in Old Testament days and Yeshua now stands with us as our High Priest and Mediator before God, The Father. This in order that we may have eternal life and no longer be separated from God. Through Yeshua we are saved from eternal death which would have been our punishment for our disobedience to God.

Yeshua took upon Himself the punishment for the sins that you and I have committed in our lives and it is by faith in His Atoning Blood that we can have remission of sins. Mankind needed a Saviour and God provided His Son as the True Lamb of God.

That is why the Old Testament has been done away with and we now have a New Covenant with God through His Son, Yeshua HaMashiach.

Please think about the following text from Romans, Chapter 8. I pray that you will realize why God's Love for you and me and all mankind replaced the Old Covenant Laws with His New Covenant of Faith and His Plan of Salvation:

1: There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2: For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3: For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5: For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6: For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8: So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10: And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11: But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12: Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13: For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15: For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16: The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.

 

[Xaquin44]

That just segues into my 'if he knew we'd fail, why'd he bother?' arguement.

It doesn't make sense.

face facts (or at least face logic).

If You knew you were going to have to change EVERYTHING, wouldn't you just do the right thing the first time?

 

[tommyjones]

So what is the truth, according to tommyjones?

that you are basing all of your hate on a book that was written by people. people who where apparently very superstitious and were trying to explain the unexplainable. unfortunately people have taking these writings to be fact.

meanwhile the radical muslims are basing all of their hate in a book that was written by people. people who where apparently very superstitious and were trying to explain the unexplainable. unfortunately people have taking these writings to be fact.

overall truth is that no one knows what the after life holds, we dont believe that people talk with god on any meaningful level today, and when people claim to we consider them crazy, so logic dictates that neither of the books you guys are using contain facts, only superstition, supposition, and a little propaganda.

"the truth as spoken by tommy jomes"

 

[Xaquin44]

Actually, he's basing his hate off of two books hehe

 

[Starman3000m]

That just segues into my 'if he knew we'd fail, why'd he bother?' arguement.

It doesn't make sense.

face facts (or at least face logic).

If You knew you were going to have to change EVERYTHING, wouldn't you just do the right thing the first time?

Actually God did do it right the first time. He gave mankind Free-Will to choose whether to be obedient to Him or choose to fall away in disobedience.

That's the story of Adam and Eve - God gave them a perfect paradise to live in but with the choice between choosing to live forever in a state of perfection with a warning not to touch and eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Guess What happened????

Mankind blew it! Yes, God could have created you to be in perfect obedience but then your love for Him would not be sincere from your own free will. God wants people to love and obey Him because they sincerely want to - not because He made them to. You have a choice to make.

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.

 

[Xaquin44]

Oh knowledge of good and evil my ass.

If they didn't have the knowledge of good and evil before hand, how were they supposed to have given good consideration as to what they were doing?

If you take someone with NO knowledge of what is good and what is bad, don't be surprised when they do something stupid.

Also, if god is all knowing and all seeing, he knew it was coming anyway.

Or, if he really didn't want them sucking down fruit he could have done the intelligent thing and not put it there.

edit: p.s. if god can see all, he already knows who will worship him the way he wants .... so really, there shouldn't be any surprises for the guy.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

I would like Muslims to know that Salvation is through the Atoning Blood of Yeshua and not of works. I would like Muslims to know that Real Peace is from the Prince of Peace, Yeshua the Son of God. It's just that Muslims are misled to believe that Yeshua is not the true Saviour of mankind. Do you believe it or do you agree with what Muslims are taught to believe?

I believe that the same God gave the Quran to the Muslims as gave the Hebrew text to the Jews and the Bible to the Christians.

I certainly do not believe that our loving Father God is going to burn all Mulims in Hell for all eternity just for keeping their own God given religion.

Islam does give the Muslims their way to salvation as Jesus too is in the Quran.

The Islamic ideology has called for world domination against secular and non-Islamic societies -

Is not that the same mistake that the Christians believe per Mark 16:15-16 link HERE?

President Bush is trying to push and force his American Christian values onto the Islamic people.

Don't you want Muslims to have the Freedom to make their own decisions or do you think it's OK to see them live under oppression and tyrannical theocracy as seen in Saudi Arabia, Iran, and all other Islamic countries?

If the Muslims in majority wanted a different form of gov then they would up-rise and over-through the old.

In Saudi Arabia the people love their King like the British love their Queen. Some few do not and others are not interested but must (the majority) do.

In Iran the people are proud of their Islamic Republic and the majority preach how their Iranian gov is better then other govs. And the Iranian gov was created by the people over-throughing the American backed regime so our complaints against them are really shallow.

Don't you want Muslims to be set free as Yeshua would like? If you truly followed the teachings of Yeshua, you would share about His Deity and ability to give Eternal Life to Muslims.

Jesus tell us to love our enemies.

If the Muslims converted to Christianity then they would no longer be seen as an "enemy" and so who could we love then? in following the command there must be enemies.

What do you want us to do?

 

[Starman3000m]

Oh knowledge of good and evil my ass.

If they didn't have the knowledge of good and evil before hand, how were they supposed to have given good consideration as to what they were doing?

If you take someone with NO knowledge of what is good and what is bad, don't be surprised when they do something stupid.

Also, if god is all knowing and all seeing, he knew it was coming anyway.

Or, if he really didn't want them sucking down fruit he could have done the intelligent thing and not put it there.

edit: p.s. if god can see all, he already knows who will worship him the way he wants .... so really, there shouldn't be any surprises for the guy.

The Book of Genesis declares that Adam and Eve were previously given the understanding that IF they touched the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, that they would die. They already were aware of that in the Beginning.

When someone tells you not to do something because it may be harmful then it is up to you to obey them or disobey them. The other part of the account is that Eve was pursuaded that God was really only "kidding" and that touching or eating from the forbidden tree would not really result in death as God said.

So who is at fault; God for telling mankind not to do something or man for thinking God is kidding when He says Don't Touch ???

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.

 

[Starman3000m]

I believe that the same God gave the Quran to the Muslims as gave the Hebrew text to the Jews and the Bible to the Christians.

I certainly do not believe that our loving Father God is going to burn all Mulims in Hell for all eternity just for keeping their own God given religion.

Islam does give the Muslims their way to salvation as Jesus too is in the Quran.

Is not that the same mistake that the Christians believe per Mark 16:15-16 link HERE?

President Bush is trying to push and force his American Christian values onto the Islamic people.

If the Muslims in majority wanted a different form of gov then they would up-rise and over-through the old.

In Saudi Arabia the people love their King like the British love their Queen. Some few do not and others are not interested but must (the majority) do.

In Iran the people are proud of their Islamic Republic and the majority preach how their Iranian gov is better then other govs. And the Iranian gov was created by the people over-throughing the American backed regime so our complaints against them are really shallow.

Jesus tell us to love our enemies.

If the Muslims converted to Christianity then they would no longer be seen as an "enemy" and so who could we love then? in following the command there must be enemies.

What do you want us to do?

JPC sr...You are definitely in my prayers!

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

JPC sr...You are definitely in my prayers!

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.

I hear words like that a lot, pray to God,

and that is why I asked you what you want us to do.

I am saying what to do as opposed to just talk, or talk to thy self and the invisible God.

I find that kind of prayer meaning - God please do some thing because the one praying is deffinately not going to do anything them self.

So do you want to pray for me and pray for the Muslims and do nothing?

 

[Starman3000m]

I hear words like that a lot, pray to God,

and that is why I asked you what you want us to do.

I am saying what to do as opposed to just talk, or talk to thy self and the invisible God.

I find that kind of prayer meaning - God please do some thing because the one praying is deffinately not going to do anything them self.

So do you want to pray for me and pray for the Muslims and do nothing?

When we pray to God it is His Intervention that gets things accomplished - not ours. We can be used by God to share and do right for others but when our enemies are intent on hating us and killing us because of our faith in Yeshua we are to still love and pray that they will open their hearts and minds to the faith that Yeshua taught.

You may recall that Yeshua said that this world hated Him and He warned His followers that they too would be hated because of their fath in Him.

This world system is under the influence of Satan and at enmity against God. As long as there are skeptics, Atheists and religionists that deny the Deity of Yeshua and deny that He was the Divine Son of God, Lamb of God and Saviour of mankind there will always be enemies to pray for.

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.

 

[Xaquin44]

The Book of Genesis declares that Adam and Eve were previously given the understanding that IF they touched the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, that they would die. They already were aware of that in the Beginning.

When someone tells you not to do something because it may be harmful then it is up to you to obey them or disobey them. The other part of the account is that Eve was pursuaded that God was really only "kidding" and that touching or eating from the forbidden tree would not really result in death as God said.

So who is at fault; God for telling mankind not to do something or man for thinking God is kidding when He says Don't Touch ???

If he really hadn't wanted man to touch it, he wouldn't have put it there.

He's god. Anything he wanted to happen or not to happen is easily in his grasp.

 

[Starman3000m]

If he really hadn't wanted man to touch it, he wouldn't have put it there.

He's god. Anything he wanted to happen or not to happen is easily in his grasp.

Perhaps it was His way of testing the genuine friendship and loyalty of mankind when given a Free-Will to choose.

It's like you can know who your friends are - not by forcing them to be your friends but by seeing how well they stick by you when you're not around. Of course God knew that mankind would fail because of our human tendency to defy authority! It is your free-will to obey your boss or teacher 100% without defying their authority in any way. As with any act of disobedience there is some kind of consequence.

However, by providing His Son as our Lord and Saviour it should help one comprehend that God's Grace is still loving enough to overlook the disobedience of our lives and that we can receive Forgiveness and Reconciliation back with God not by our merit but by what He did for us.

You can have that right now just for the asking - that is if you are really serious about wanting to know the Truth about God.

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

When we pray to God it is His Intervention that gets things accomplished - not ours. We can be used by God to share and do right for others but when our enemies are intent on hating us and killing us because of our faith in Yeshua we are to still love and pray that they will open their hearts and minds to the faith that Yeshua taught.

You may recall that Yeshua said that this world hated Him and He warned His followers that they too would be hated because of their fath in Him.

This world system is under the influence of Satan and at enmity against God. As long as there are skeptics, Atheists and religionists that deny the Deity of Yeshua and deny that He was the Divine Son of God, Lamb of God and Saviour of mankind there will always be enemies to pray for.

God Did For Mankind What Abraham Was Going To Do For God.

So would you agree that Christians have no business going to the other side of the earth to kill Muslims?

or to strike first against them?

Now President Bush can claim to be a Christians as he does such things,

but can a real Christian go on the offencive to attack and kill the Muslims? I say no.

 

[Starman3000m]

So would you agree that Christians have no business going to the other side of the earth to kill Muslims?

or to strike first against them?

Now President Bush can claim to be a Christians as he does such things,

but can a real Christian go on the offencive to attack and kill the Muslims? I say no.

No. But then again, a True Christian would also know better than to coerce Israel into giving up their land when God had already ordained the Promised Land for the Jews.

We are facing more perilous times, JPC sr.

 

[tommyjones]

No. But then again, a True Christian would also know better than to coerce Israel into giving up their land when God had already ordained the Promised Land for the Jews.
We are facing more perilous times, JPC sr.

we're sorry, you are reading from the wrong book.

 

[Starman3000m]

we're sorry, you are reading from the wrong book.

Hmmm... you mean you are reading from the one that says Jews should be exterminated and that the nation of Israel be destroyed???

 

[JPC sr]

The big pic.

God had already ordained the Promised Land for the Jews.

God has not "ordained" the modern State of Israel as the Jewish promise land.