When is Enough...enough?

[mAlice]

Men's brains do not do this).

I must have brain damage, 'cuz I don't wanna' talk it out.

 

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

Can you rephrase this, 'cuz I'm not gettin' ya'.

How much compromising would he be doing if he no longer got the warm and fuzzies from you?

 

[vraiblonde]

I know for a fact she wondered what "she did wrong". She told me.

Of course. How many times have you heard a story about a couple who dated for years, she wanted to get married and he didn't. Then she finally leaves him because she wants marriage and kids, and *he* gets married 6 months later?

He wanted to be married - just not to her. :shrug:

 

[mAlice]

How much compromising would he be doing if he no longer got the warm and fuzzies from you?

None. He'd walk. But that's really not the point, is it? The point is that some people just don't want to be involved in anything that doesn't revolve around their selfish lives. If WifeandMother's hubby doesn't want to be involved in their lives, the relationship won't last. It's no longer a relationship. She has become his mother's replacement. She takes care of the home, kids, meals, chores, errands and he comes and goes as he pleases.

 

[Sharon]

I must have brain damage, 'cuz I don't wanna' talk it out.

I prefer to just get over it, whatever it is.

Talking makes me want to make your head explode.

 

[mAlice]

Talking makes me want to make your head explode.

Do you get that timer-ticky thing in your head when the argument drones on and on?

 

[Larry Gude]

That is the entire...

None. He'd walk. But that's really not the point, is it? The point is that some people just don't want to be involved in anything that doesn't revolve around their selfish lives. If WifeandMother's hubby doesn't want to be involved in their lives, the relationship won't last. It's no longer a relationship. She has become his mother's replacement. She takes care of the home, kids, meals, chores, errands and he comes and goes as he pleases.

...point.

And I only brought it up for motherandwife, aka MNW, to consider in terms of where she is with the old man and how to deal with her problem. You can still have that thing for your wife and not be doing what she wants. Just because people are in love and crazy about each other doesn't automatically make everything go just so. It is STILL work even with deep love.

So, maybe he's a lout? I don't know. Maybe he needs and wants some love and patience from her and she'd not willing. Maybe they have some things they need to do for each other?

 

[mAlice]

...point.

And I only brought it up for motherandwife, aka MNW, to consider in terms of where she is with the old man and how to deal with her problem. You can still have that thing for your wife and not be doing what she wants. Just because people are in love and crazy about each other doesn't automatically make everything go just so. It is STILL work even with deep love.

So, maybe he's a lout? I don't know. Maybe he needs and wants some love and patience from her and she'd not willing. Maybe they have some things they need to do for each other?

Well, that's certainly something to consider for the two of them, but are you suggesting he's not getting something from his children, so he's going to "punish" them by not being involved in their lives?

 

[Sharon]

Do you get that timer-ticky thing in your head when the argument drones on and on?

No. 2A and I rarely argue. We may disagree on something, but he knows as well as I do "talking" is not going to make either of us change. We learned a long time ago just to agree to disagree and leave it at that. No need to put each other through the misery of an argument. Some words cannot be taken back, so they should never be said.

 

[RoseRed]

DEAR MARGO: I have a problem. I am in high school, and I'm in love with two women. Even worse, they happen to be my girlfriend and her mother. I don't know what to do. I love my girlfriend's fresh, youthful outlook on life, but at the same time, I find her mother's intelligence very stimulating. Also, not to be crude, but the sex with the mother is amazing.

I really cannot choose between the two, and my girlfriend thankfully has no idea that I am intimate with her mother, although the mother is well aware that I am dating her daughter. We live in an affluent community where everybody knows his or her neighbor's business, so I am also constantly afraid that we will soon be exposed.

Lately, it has become obvious to me that I have to end one of the relationships, but I don't know which one! The mother has suggested running away to Mexico with me, but I really want to stay here and finish school. What should I do?


--- DOUBLE TROUBLE IN DENVER

DEAR DOUB: I think you should go back to your homework and leave the bodice-rippers to experienced writers.


--- MARGO, SUSPICIOUSLY

...

 

[jetmonkey]

this thing is awesome

http://www.1-click.jp/

 

[SamSpade]

I see your point but... Is it possible to feel controlled?

On a related note - about 18 years ago, I left a cult after having been in it almost 10 years. There are *volumes* written about mind control and so on. I've been in online debates until my brain grew numb, usually with current cult members who insist there ain't no such thing.

There is - kind of. Nobody can control you unless you let them. If you're not afraid to **DIE**, then a gun pointed at your head has no power over you. But if you are afraid to die or desperately want to *live*, then the person wielding the gun DOES have power over you. They have to ability to destroy something you want - your life.

The cult could do the same thing - aside from the fact they could use your beliefs regarding the afterlife over you (you could be threatened with damnation) - you could be shunned. Worse, when I was IN that cult, I was so strapped financially, to be kicked out would mean a few weeks in a shelter. Seriously. I barely had two nickels to rub together and zero credit. I had to choose an existence I could barely tolerate (the cult) and an unknown and unpleasant future.

Eventually it got so bad, I took the unpleasant future.

I'm not so dismissive of "control". You don't realize it until you've been there.

 

[Larry Gude]

No...

Well, that's certainly something to consider for the two of them, but are you suggesting he's not getting something from his children, so he's going to "punish" them by not being involved in their lives?

...not at all, and if is, then MNW is correct that this is real bad for her kid.

The girls mom got me to get involved with soccer with them years ago. I wasn't doing it on my own. I wasn't NOT doing to 'get' her or them. I just wasn't doing it. I thank her for it to this day. It was great for me and, most importantly, the kids. She nudged me into it and I'm glad she did. It changed me and helped me be a better dad.

The flip side is she resented me for 'having to get me to do what I should have been doing all along'. I never understood it until we got divorced; she didn't give a rats azz whether I did it or not; what mattered to her was the resentment. Some people only want success THEIR way.

So, MNW's hubby might need some time and patience and some nudging.
Maybe he'll come around and grow up and maybe she'll be happy about it.

Or resent him for it and get rid of him later.

 

[Larry Gude]

Bored...

this thing is awesome

http://www.1-click.jp/

...with the thread or am I just not getting it?

 

[mAlice]

...not at all, and if is, then MNW is correct that this is real bad for her kid.

The girls mom got me to get involved with soccer with them years ago. I wasn't doing it on my own. I wasn't NOT doing to 'get' her or them. I just wasn't doing it. I thank her for it to this day. It was great for me and, most importantly, the kids. She nudged me into it and I'm glad she did. It changed me and helped me be a better dad.

The flip side is she resented me for 'having to get me to do what I should have been doing all along'. I never understood it until we got divorced; she didn't give a rats azz whether I did it or not; what mattered to her was the resentment. Some people only want success THEIR way.

So, MNW's hubby might need some time and patience and some nudging.
Maybe he'll come around and grow up and maybe she'll be happy about it.

Or resent him for it and get rid of him later.

Their must be something wrong with us. We don't have to nudge or encourage each other to do what is right by our kid. We've always just done it. I can't imagine what type of person needs to be told what do where their children are concerned.

 

[SamSpade]

... I never understood it until we got divorced; she didn't give a rats azz whether I did it or not; what mattered to her was the resentment. Some people only want success THEIR way.

About twenty years ago, my mom used to hammer me to death with "guilt" over my participation in family gatherings. Usually this was visited upon me at the very last minute - no warning - and usually meant a bigger commitment from me than from others (example - I'm 500 miles away, and everyone has to drive less than 10 miles - and it's on Sunday afternoon, and I work Monday). Her final line was always "well my *FAMILY* will be there " and then in deeply sepulchral, ominous tone "..it's up to YOU if you want to come or not".

Of course, I'd come, I'd be greeted by family and then utterly ignored for five hours. Two hours after I'd leave people would wonder when I left.

Eventually, the guilt didn't work. They might try to guilt me out, but in the final analysis they didn't really give a rat's azz if I was there or not. It was more a control thing.

And eventually, I started to come on my own. Admittedly - it took my wife to persuade me to do it. But strong arming me to do it would only serve to push me further away. I don't like being forced.

 

[WifeandMother]

I appreciate all that you have mentioned.

I wish I knew how to communicate with him in a way that isn't confrontational to him. I honestly do try and talk to him...but he is a very argumentative person.

Any suggestions on how to deal with someone who always thinks they are right, and doesn't know how to communicate in a non confrontational manner?

 

[Larry Gude]

That's a pretty good...

On a related note - about 18 years ago, I left a cult after having been in it almost 10 years. There are *volumes* written about mind control and so on. I've been in online debates until my brain grew numb, usually with current cult members who insist there ain't no such thing.

There is - kind of. Nobody can control you unless you let them. If you're not afraid to **DIE**, then a gun pointed at your head has no power over you. But if you are afraid to die or desperately want to *live*, then the person wielding the gun DOES have power over you. They have to ability to destroy something you want - your life.

The cult could do the same thing - aside from the fact they could use your beliefs regarding the afterlife over you (you could be threatened with damnation) - you could be shunned. Worse, when I was IN that cult, I was so strapped financially, to be kicked out would mean a few weeks in a shelter. Seriously. I barely had two nickels to rub together and zero credit. I had to choose an existence I could barely tolerate (the cult) and an unknown and unpleasant future.

Eventually it got so bad, I took the unpleasant future.

I'm not so dismissive of "control". You don't realize it until you've been there.

...way of making the point that we do, or at least can, have power over each other.

If MNW had that 'power' over hubby, then maybe he's reached point where he is less worried about enjoying it. Maybe it's not too far gone?

If she never did, as Vrail suggested in the 10# point, then maybe she can get him to do it just because it's the right thing to do. Or maybe not.

 

[cvizzy]

Communication

Ok...background...yes, I was pregnant when we got married. Yes he wanted to be a Dad...we decided before I got pregnant. (we were together for 4 years before)

I work outside the home.

I do everything with my daughter and mostly without him. I just feel like this is not what married with children life is supposed to be.

I suppose most of you are correct...I can't change him. I suppose I probably wouldn't want someone to change me either. (I hate to sound like I'm perfect...cause I know I'm not) But People should just know better!

I think someone said it earlier communication is the key. BTW ignoring him or demanding does not count as communication. Also I don't know how old the daughter is but she could ask as well so he knows it is affecting her. And I agree in a non-threatening manner you two should sit and talk about how his not doing things with you two is affecting the whole family. You might be surprised at the outcome and try and be positive.

 

[mAlice]

I wish I knew how to communicate with him in a way that isn't confrontational to him.

Make your plans assuming he will not be part of them and go about your merry way. Put it on a calendar, inform him that you and the kid will be going/doing on such and such a date. If he decides to come along, he will. If he doesn't, then he can explain to the kids why.